Conquer Club

freakns-offansive avatar [closed]

All previously decided cases. Please check here before opening a new case.

Moderators: Multi Hunters, Cheating/Abuse Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

[These cases have been closed. If you would like to appeal the decision of the hunter please open a ticket on the help page and the case will be looked into by a second hunter.]

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby lynch5762 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:22 am

I will attempt to put a slightly different spin on this.

This is obviously a very touchy subject and I find myself searching for the right words to avoid any misunderstanding.

For starters.... Let me be right up front. I was born and raised in the united states. Both my father, and his brother, lost their lives while fighting in a war for this country. So while I know what it is like to lose a loved one to conflict, I want to also make clear that I do not know what it is like to experience my country being invaded. I can not imagine the horrors that families experienced during such times.

That being said.... We have a fundamental belief in America concerning the freedom of speech. In my opinion, this belief goes way beyond just giving someone the right to speak how he feels. In a strange way, it enables society to experience what people are thinking and in return, It opens up society to react.

Obviously the "Nazi" movement was not a popular one with the world... And in turn the world reacted. The same could be said for all of the mini events that occur throughout the world. In our country we have our share of "Skinheads" and everything else. Please know that I am sure that it is far worse on the other side of the water, but here they are laughed at and considered outcasts.

I know it seems backwards... but it is a good thing to let people express what they believe. If not for anything else then at least you know where they stand. Imagine your 5 closest friends and then imagine if any of you would allow a person with such extreme beliefs to be a regular part of your circle. Now multiply that by a Billion.

If someone wants to tattoo the swastika on his body then let him! that way we all know he is a moron.

For this reason I agree wholeheartedly with ahunda and I think you now agree as well freakns. Your display of the symbol has done nothing but brought it back into the minds of many. I understand the meaning behind it but most won't grasp that while only giving it a short glance. So in a way, you have glorified the symbol rather than your intended purpose for displaying it.

In other words.... If you displayed an avatar that said "I HATE NAZI'S" ... you would still be bringing attention to the symbol. I say leave it alone and let society frown on those that dare to flaunt it (again I know that was not your intention)

All of the above being said, I don't think that we should put limitations on the freedom of speech. We may not like what people say but think about it.... If someone on this site wants to express their extremist views than so be it. Let the CC community decide how they feel about him and lets see how many playing partners he gets in the long run. Get them out in the open and let society weed them out. That is what I think and I am sorry if this has been discussed I did not read the entire thread.
Image
Captain lynch5762
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:13 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby agentcom on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:56 pm

I only read the first and last page of this thread. Apparently, there was some yelling going on in between, but the limited amount I read was a near-miraculous (by internet forum standards) discussion of Nazism, Swastikas, intolerance and racism. I commend those of you that posted on this last page.

For similar reasons to lynch, above, I don't care what kind of avatars people put on their profiles. Everyone should have the right to express themselves. However, we also have to consider that not all societies are as liberal in their promotion of free speech as America. While I doubt CC will ever draw the ire of a national government, lack and other CC mods have to be aware that in some countries is may be illegal to display the swastika, which CC might be doing if it displayed some people's avatars. This is unfortunate for free speech, in my opinion, but the purpose of this site is not to promote free speech but to provide an environment to play a game. I don't think it is CC's place to try to take a stand on this issue. Instead, if they must, I understand them forcing players to remove avatars if they feel that it would be illegal to do otherwise.
User avatar
Colonel agentcom
 
Posts: 3989
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Leehar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm just concerned that the last 2 posters have somehow made this about america? Does every convo need to turn into an America is the stalwart of the free world and the last bastion against oppression, bla bla bla? :P
show
User avatar
Colonel Leehar
 
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:12 pm
Location: Johannesburg

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby redhawk92 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:20 pm

I would say most members of this site are interested in history.

The symbol in question is part of history.

Why would you want to ban discussion or support for or against what has happened.

If a symbol you see on an internet forum offends you, suck it up.
Captain redhawk92
 
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby rhp 1 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:39 pm

kylegraves1 wrote:I would say most members of this site are interested in history.

The symbol in question is part of history.

Why would you want to ban discussion or support for or against what has happened.

If a symbol you see on an internet forum offends you, suck it up.



+1
User avatar
Lieutenant rhp 1
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: IF YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, IT IS BEST TO DO IT....... QUICKLY

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby freakns on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:25 am

Leehar wrote:I'm just concerned that the last 2 posters have somehow made this about america? Does every convo need to turn into an America is the stalwart of the free world and the last bastion against oppression, bla bla bla? :P

i actually find that quite fascinating... not only every state in US have different laws, but in Britain or Holland for example you have far more freedom then any american could imagine.
we might go into totally different discussion here, but in US you can say whatever you want as long noone is listening... i dont know any other country, outside of China maybe, that have such a tight grip on journalism as US have. can you imagine USA today, NY Times or Washington Post printing articles that Guardian prints?
this doesnt mean everything is bad there, ofc not, actually most things are fantastic, but if you scratch the cover youll find that panem et circenses was nowhere implemented as good as it is in US...
Image
Brigadier freakns
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:20 am

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby lynch5762 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:02 am

Leehar wrote:I'm just concerned that the last 2 posters have somehow made this about america? Does every convo need to turn into an America is the stalwart of the free world and the last bastion against oppression, bla bla bla? :P


Talk about taking things out of context.... I mentioned America twice. Once was to make the point that I have no clue what it is like to live in a country that has been invaded and the second time was only to mention the freedom of speech because someone had said that the symbol had been banned in several countries.

get over yourself
Image
Captain lynch5762
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:13 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby timrs2001 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:08 am

A happy face is a symbol glorifying Watchmen which I found to be offensive and want all happy faces removed from the internet. (I'm joking)
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Rush, Freewill
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class timrs2001
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby timrs2001 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:09 am

My avatar glorifies the Blue Man Group which is offensive because it doesn't glorify the Green Men or any other colour men at the same time. (Ow, tongue too far in cheek) :)
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Rush, Freewill
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class timrs2001
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Evolution299 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:41 pm

Totally blown out of porportion. This shouldn't even be a question since the same saymbol is visible on more than one game board on this site.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Evolution299
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:22 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby DiM on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:22 pm

would this smiley be banned?

edit: Removed image
Last edited by BGtheBrain on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed Image of Hitler & Swastika
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Qwert on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Its will be good to know what swastika are banned here in CC
-Nazi Swastika
-Hindy Swastika
-Roman empire swastika
-Bronze age swastika
---------------------------
For me cenzorship of all swastikas,only because nazi germany are insane,because i belive that even in these country like hungary or poland hindy swastika are not forbiden.

I will try to put roman empire mozaic from 2nd century who have swastika , to see what will be reaction of people,and if someone be offended,then with these people are something serious wrong.
Lack realy need to have clear rule what swastika are forbiden and when some symbols are accepted, then we will not have these problem to express self.
Image
NEW REVOLUTION-NEW RANKS PRESS THESE LINK viewtopic.php?f=471&t=47578&start=0
User avatar
Major Qwert
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 9262
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: VOJVODINA

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby agentcom on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:52 am

agentcom wrote:I only read the first and last page of this thread. Apparently, there was some yelling going on in between, but the limited amount I read was a near-miraculous (by internet forum standards) discussion of Nazism, Swastikas, intolerance and racism. I commend those of you that posted on this last page.

For similar reasons to lynch, above, I don't care what kind of avatars people put on their profiles. Everyone should have the right to express themselves. However, we also have to consider that not all societies are as liberal in their promotion of free speech as America. While I doubt CC will ever draw the ire of a national government, lack and other CC mods have to be aware that in some countries is may be illegal to display the swastika, which CC might be doing if it displayed some people's avatars. This is unfortunate for free speech, in my opinion, but the purpose of this site is not to promote free speech but to provide an environment to play a game. I don't think it is CC's place to try to take a stand on this issue. Instead, if they must, I understand them forcing players to remove avatars if they feel that it would be illegal to do otherwise.


The post that immediately follows:

Leehar wrote:I'm just concerned that the last 2 posters have somehow made this about america? Does every convo need to turn into an America is the stalwart of the free world and the last bastion against oppression, bla bla bla? :P


I must have cast some sort of spell. By complimenting folks on their demeanor, I unleashed the trolls somehow.

:/
User avatar
Colonel agentcom
 
Posts: 3989
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby agentcom on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:53 am

Also, while I was flipping through this topic, I couldn't find where the actual RULING was. Can anyone link me to the post with the RULING? Thanks
User avatar
Colonel agentcom
 
Posts: 3989
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:48 am

It tickles me that anyone could join a wargaming site and take offence at a symbol that undeniably represents a chapter in the history of human conflict.

Would someone who is easily offended by nudity take out a subscription to Playboy? Unlikely, right?. Or if one did he would no doubt be scoffed at for airing his grievances.

So surely in this instance - as with any business - it's important to qualify one's candidates and cater to the majority accordingly.

This site is a vehicle for us to enjoy friendly adversity on a fantastic array of maps (works of art, really) which both celebrate and commemorate milestones in our journey to where we are today. To ignore or deride any part of that history, given this site's raison d'etre, is both blinkered and over-reactionary.

That's pretty much my whole take on this issue.

"Quieta non movere"
Image
Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
User avatar
Colonel Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Buckinghamshire U.K.

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby eddie2 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:08 am

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_what_countries_is_the_swastika_symbol_illegal

so brazil 107 members.
poland 28 members
germany 136 members
hungary 38 members
no matter what gets said like the link above says the religious symbols are ok but when you link it to germany then it becomes a problem this site is a international site and the 4 countrys above are not allowed to display the symbol and could end up with criminal action against them if they play in public and it is seen as for dim you should be stripped of moderator powers for your above post displaying the symbol with hitler.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class eddie2
 
Posts: 4263
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:56 am
Location: Southampton uk

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:36 am

eddie2 wrote:http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_what_countries_is_the_swastika_symbol_illegal

so brazil 107 members.
poland 28 members
germany 136 members
hungary 38 members
no matter what gets said like the link above says the religious symbols are ok but when you link it to germany then it becomes a problem this site is a international site and the 4 countrys above are not allowed to display the symbol and could end up with criminal action against them if they play in public and it is seen as for dim you should be stripped of moderator powers for your above post displaying the symbol with hitler.


Gosh. Let's all write to Wikipedia and complain.

If you happen to be Brazilian this is what a search would get you: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

(just for the record it's only illegal in Brazil to display the swastika if it's with the intent of propagating Nazism)
Image
Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
User avatar
Colonel Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Buckinghamshire U.K.

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Barney Rubble on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:19 am

I think you missed one or two COF .In the Vietnamese culture the Swastika is one of the most sacred religious symbols of Buddhism. Greeks in the 6 century BC used the symbol on coins .There are Swatikas on a mammoth bone dated at 10,000 B.C. from the Ukraine .Hell there even Swastikas used as decorative motifs on a building built in 1904 in my home town on Vancouver Island.
User avatar
Major Barney Rubble
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:28 pm
Location: Bedrock
23

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Iceni on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:56 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:It tickles me that anyone could join a wargaming site and take offence at a symbol that undeniably represents a chapter in the history of human conflict.

Would someone who is easily offended by nudity take out a subscription to Playboy? Unlikely, right?. Or if one did he would no doubt be scoffed at for airing his grievances.

So surely in this instance - as with any business - it's important to qualify one's candidates and cater to the majority accordingly.

This site is a vehicle for us to enjoy friendly adversity on a fantastic array of maps (works of art, really) which both celebrate and commemorate milestones in our journey to where we are today. To ignore or deride any part of that history, given this site's raison d'etre, is both blinkered and over-reactionary.

That's pretty much my whole take on this issue.

"Quieta non movere"


+1
Corporal 1st Class Iceni
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby freakns on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:53 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:It tickles me that anyone could join a wargaming site and take offence at a symbol that undeniably represents a chapter in the history of human conflict.

Would someone who is easily offended by nudity take out a subscription to Playboy? Unlikely, right?. Or if one did he would no doubt be scoffed at for airing his grievances.

So surely in this instance - as with any business - it's important to qualify one's candidates and cater to the majority accordingly.

This site is a vehicle for us to enjoy friendly adversity on a fantastic array of maps (works of art, really) which both celebrate and commemorate milestones in our journey to where we are today. To ignore or deride any part of that history, given this site's raison d'etre, is both blinkered and over-reactionary.

That's pretty much my whole take on this issue.

"Quieta non movere"

just admit you used french and latin to piss off WB :D
although i mostly agree with you, id never use that last phrase. first because if you just let it be, it would eventually stop the progress. we always have to question ourself, especially when we want to stop something... and second, this lion has been awaken(hell, look at eddie... and we all know how much of stupidity per paragraph written he is capable of), so its a bit too late...
and eddie, recheck those facts. you can not be accountable for what other users out on their avatars. also, this site is not nazi propaganda site, so you cant be accountable for visiting it. lastly, looking at countries, you have to ask yourself... Poland has rightfully banned it. being the country that suffer the most, its understandable. Germany and Hungary however, being two most vicious nazi countries in WW II, they want to forget, hide in shame. Brazil is there to prevent glorifying nazism(thus only being illegal to support nazism, which here clearly is not the case) because, shockingly, most nazis flee to Brazil after WWII! (Argentina and South Africa being two other popular destinations)... but all of those countries have laws to prevent glorification of nazism! im pretty sure Sam Peckinpah's Iron Cross wasnt banned there... so would you at least try to understand the difference between what i have done(support anti-nazism), what CoF is saying(we can not and should not forget history) and what your little brain has caught(swastika=you are nazi). there is significant difference between those three. and while CoF suggestion can be correlated with both and none in same time, your and mine are mutually excluded, you just have to try to understand it. and ffs, use punctuation.
Image
Brigadier freakns
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:20 am

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby White Buffalo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:52 pm

freakns wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:"Quieta non movere"


freakns wrote:Just admit you used french and latin to piss off WB :D


Let sleeping dogs lie, good idea :)
User avatar
Captain White Buffalo
 
Posts: 459
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:53 am

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby DiM on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:15 pm

eddie2 wrote:as for dim you should be stripped of moderator powers for your above post displaying the symbol with hitler.


and you should be stripped of any educational diplomas you have, for tormenting the english language like that.


if you really think an emoticon of hitler is somehow an indication of me being a nazi, then you're insane.
btw, i assume every time discovery channel or history channel air a documentary about hitler you immediately make a formal complaint and ask for the banning of those channels, right?

PS: for future reference, the emoticon:

edit: Image removed
Last edited by BGtheBrain on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed Image of Hitler & Swastika
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby Qwert on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:30 pm

eddie are these also offensive for you? damn crazy bronze age,they are full of nazi supporters!
Image
Image
NEW REVOLUTION-NEW RANKS PRESS THESE LINK viewtopic.php?f=471&t=47578&start=0
User avatar
Major Qwert
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 9262
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: VOJVODINA

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:38 pm

Feel free to continue this discussion elsewhere.
Locked
User avatar
Captain BGtheBrain
 
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: freakns-offansive avatar [pending] KRK

Postby king achilles on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:59 pm

While I see both opposing points of how certain symbols is perceived by different people, we are in agreement that we all do not condone the Nazis and what they generally have done. Making symbols or images to represent them is usually a questionable objective or an ignorant representation or a biased understanding. To use images, or anything that is intentionally disturbing to incite or invoke negative reactions to others shows intention. With so many images to use, why use something that can be controversial and usually means one and the same thing? I personally did not see the avatar that was used in this case but being that it has stirred up a discussion about what is offensive and what is not, you guys can continue your endless debate in the General Discussions forum, not here.

Reports about offensive avatars, signatures, profiles, and the like will be taken on a case by case basis.

Now, should we ban all swastikas (small or large images) from the website? Personally, I don't think so but do we want to see people wearing these symbols freely and say "they represent a different meaning" alibi?
This is speaking in general not pertaining to anyone in particular.

freakns - being that you can live without an avatar, if you decide to use one again, try to have an image that could be less controversial, or something that can not be interpreted offensively by many. I understand that people have different beliefs but let's find a point where we can all be fair with one another.

As what the Community Guidelines states:

Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat.
Image
Please don't have more than 1 account. If you have any CC concerns, you can contact us here.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class king achilles
Support Admin
Support Admin
 
Posts: 13255
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:55 pm

Previous

Return to Closed C&A Reports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users