covert 63 & CDL Texan [warned and noted]

[madmom]

Accused:

covert 63
CDLTexan



The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy


Game number(s):

Game 5433140
Game 5394489
Game 5337520
and more...


Comments: They have to have a secret diplomacy. They never attack each other until the end of the game when they've slaughtered everyone else.

[jefjef]

Covert 63 Rules.....always has to carry CDLTexan

by covert 63
on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:46 am .................. Posted on CD's wall. Multies? Doubt it. They are friends/pards for sure. Friends don't like to attack friends.

[sailorc]

considering their both premium, they seem to be friends. they should probably play dubs though.

[Andir]

I can guarantee they are not the same person. We all play a lot of games together and they do not favor attacking others over each other that often. I've seen some brutal matches between those two. You just happened to be in a game where they decided you were a bigger threat than they were to each other.

Besides, it's just a game. Have fun! Don't get mad mom.

[madmom]

I can guarantee they are not the same person. We all play a lot of games together and they do not favor attacking others over each other that often. I've seen some brutal matches between those two. You just happened to be in a game where they decided you were a bigger threat than they were to each other.

Besides, it's just a game. Have fun! Don't get mad mom.

Lol! Yes, I saw the few games you were in with them and, as another "friend", you were able to play a fair game. As for being a bigger threat in my game... if you read the log and were in the game you wouldn't be so quick to judge - a "bigger threat" with a one-man bonus?? That's hilarious! In addition to his friend having a 6 man bonus... and who does he attack? Nope, sorry mate, I'm no moderator, but I also don't have my head in the sand. I'm not the only one who has questioned their "secret" or "not-so-secret" alliance... read the chat in some of their other games.

And I agree, jefjef, that they are friends who don't like to attack each other... but that is still considered cheating.

[jefjef]

I agree mom. I don't like playing standards against known pards cuz of games like this. I don't like playing standards with my pards cuz Ya feel like cutting them slack sometimes. I'm gonna foe em both so I won't ever have to deal with them.

[Andir]

Lol! Yes, I saw the few games you were in with them and, as another "friend", you were able to play a fair game. As for being a bigger threat in my game... if you read the log and were in the game you wouldn't be so quick to judge - a "bigger threat" with a one-man bonus?? That's hilarious! In addition to his friend having a 6 man bonus... and who does he attack? Nope, sorry mate, I'm no moderator, but I also don't have my head in the sand. I'm not the only one who has questioned their "secret" or "not-so-secret" alliance... read the chat in some of their other games.

And I agree, jefjef, that they are friends who don't like to attack each other... but that is still considered cheating.

From the looks of it, you had the bottom corner. Every game of that map I've won was when I started or controlled that island and the desert above it. Rarely have I won by holding the center or throne. I think I would have considered it a threat to let you get such a defensible position.

[CDLTexan]

I find the games chosen as "evidence" comical. One is a supermax prison game where Covert 63 knocked me out of the yard and cut my bonus in half. Then once he controlled the yard he got the warden and the gas chamber and dominated the game. The other is an Africa map where Covert and red got into a battle and red cried when I didn't come to his aid. All I was doing was trying to survive. And now this game I haven't targeted bonuses. I have targeted weak people to steal their cards to get more turn ins and a big troop lead. So far that has worked. In fact madmom was right by my bonus when I only had 1's on it and she didn't attack!! So out of 91 games I have played with Covert this is her evidence???? Very weak. I play to win no matter who is in the game. If I can get a leg up by attacking a "friend" I will do it. But there was no strategic reason for me to take out a 3 man bonus in the middle of a siege map!!!

[soundman]

Lol! Yes, I saw the few games you were in with them and, as another "friend", you were able to play a fair game. As for being a bigger threat in my game... if you read the log and were in the game you wouldn't be so quick to judge - a "bigger threat" with a one-man bonus?? That's hilarious! In addition to his friend having a 6 man bonus... and who does he attack? Nope, sorry mate, I'm no moderator, but I also don't have my head in the sand. I'm not the only one who has questioned their "secret" or "not-so-secret" alliance... read the chat in some of their other games.

And I agree, jefjef, that they are friends who don't like to attack each other... but that is still considered cheating.

From the looks of it, you had the bottom corner. Every game of that map I've won was when I started or controlled that island and the desert above it. Rarely have I won by holding the center or throne. I think I would have considered it a threat to let you get such a defensible position.

Except that yellow held the ENTIRE right bottom corner! Obviously in a much better position to win the game than madmom.

[CDLTexan]

Hey soundman you might want to get your facts straight before you accuse people. When covert attacked madmom I only had the swamp. And for Covert to attack me he would have had to go through madmom in the plains and the midlands or through glasscobra in the tunnel. Neither move makes much since. I didn't get the bottom right corner until I took out green which was made possible when madmom left my swamp bonus alone when I had all ones there and she had half of the midlands including the one that bordered the swamp. Don't believe me? Just go check the log and see when I got the bottom right corner.

[madmom]

Hey soundman you might want to get your facts straight before you accuse people. When covert attacked madmom I only had the swamp. And for Covert to attack me he would have had to go through madmom in the plains and the midlands or through glasscobra in the tunnel. Neither move makes much since. I didn't get the bottom right corner until I took out green which was made possible when madmom left my swamp bonus alone when I had all ones there and she had half of the midlands including the one that bordered the swamp. Don't believe me? Just go check the log and see when I got the bottom right corner.

You're hilarious...
2009-08-19 15:22:38 - CDLTexan received 4 troops for holding The Swamp
2009-08-19 15:22:38 - CDLTexan received 1 troops for holding The Woods Camp
Blue deployed on plains 2 and came straight down to hit me vs going through a one on plains 1, one on gate and one on swamp 1 to break you... and need I remind you that blue goes right before you - yellow??
CDL, I really hope they ban you and covert from playing together, but let me assure you that regardless of what they do, the number of people who actually look into this will certainly foe you. It's a whole lot easier to admit your mistakes and hope that people will show grace and trust that you will no longer cheat.

[BoganGod]

Sounds logical, attack the weaker player and hope to put them out. I always go for the weakest if I can. Natural selection... etc.

[madmom]

Lol! Yes, I saw the few games you were in with them and, as another "friend", you were able to play a fair game. As for being a bigger threat in my game... if you read the log and were in the game you wouldn't be so quick to judge - a "bigger threat" with a one-man bonus?? That's hilarious! In addition to his friend having a 6 man bonus... and who does he attack? Nope, sorry mate, I'm no moderator, but I also don't have my head in the sand. I'm not the only one who has questioned their "secret" or "not-so-secret" alliance... read the chat in some of their other games.

And I agree, jefjef, that they are friends who don't like to attack each other... but that is still considered cheating.

From the looks of it, you had the bottom corner. Every game of that map I've won was when I started or controlled that island and the desert above it. Rarely have I won by holding the center or throne. I think I would have considered it a threat to let you get such a defensible position.

This is (hopefully) my last post as the moderators can handle it from here. However, I had to say how laughable this comment is when you've only played this map all of 3 times and, of the 2 you won, you won one by holding castle bonuses!

[madmom]

Sounds logical, attack the weaker player and hope to put them out. I always go for the weakest if I can. Natural selection... etc.

Lol!

[CDLTexan]

Hey soundman you might want to get your facts straight before you accuse people. When covert attacked madmom I only had the swamp. And for Covert to attack me he would have had to go through madmom in the plains and the midlands or through glasscobra in the tunnel. Neither move makes much since. I didn't get the bottom right corner until I took out green which was made possible when madmom left my swamp bonus alone when I had all ones there and she had half of the midlands including the one that bordered the swamp. Don't believe me? Just go check the log and see when I got the bottom right corner.

You're hilarious...
2009-08-19 15:22:38 - CDLTexan received 4 troops for holding The Swamp
2009-08-19 15:22:38 - CDLTexan received 1 troops for holding The Woods Camp
Blue deployed on plains 2 and came straight down to hit me vs going through a one on plains 1, one on gate and one on swamp 1 to break you... and need I remind you that blue goes right before you - yellow??
CDL, I really hope they ban you and covert from playing together, but let me assure you that regardless of what they do, the number of people who actually look into this will certainly foe you. It's a whole lot easier to admit your mistakes and hope that people will show grace and trust that you will no longer cheat.

Really a 1 on plains 1??? I know for sure that I had a 5 on there from getting a bonus of 2 from a previous turn in. Here it is from the log:

2009-08-18 17:45:35 - CDLTexan cashed in a group of Plains 1, Great Hall 5, and Outer Wall 3 worth 10 troops
2009-08-18 17:45:35 - CDLTexan got bonus of 2 troops added to Plains 1.

And I was going to leave that 5 there because you had a 9 right beside it protecting your camp. But you still haven't answered my question. Why did you expect covert to go through that many troops when you would even attack a 3 on 1 that you were right beside? I don't care what you say, I play to win and every move I do what is best for me.

[covert 63]

Madmom,

Do you really think taking out your 1 bonus was my goal there? If so, you're clueless and self centered. Check my other games on this map, I've only been able to win when I controlled the bottom left. It's the easiest to defend, get the plains and you only need to defend in two spots (Plains 1 and Plains 4) you get 1 bonus for the island and 4 for the plains. However, if you hold the bottom right, you have to defend several spots, including the tunnel. I tried to take the bottom left before you had the island. Lost every roll and had to take a territory from Cyan just to get a spoil. The east ward was a place I could establish a bonus until attempting to take the bottom left again. I've never been able to win from one of the wards as you can only attack up and through the tunnel. When I got a turn in, I noticed you still hadn't secured the plains. I had two territories in the plains and dropped all my troops on one in a final attempt to take over the island. I lost so many rolls I had to stop and you preceded to take the territory back.

If you lose this game, you only have yourself to blame, you should have secured the plains by now, if not much sooner. You're moving too slow, making yourself a target. Had I been in your position, I wouldn't have waited.

So get the facts straight before you question my integrity. You should take a closer look at those other two games you posted, both terminator games in which I got just about every termination. Would seem a bit greedy of me if I was "working together" with a friend. I must be a horrible friend.

I am friends with CDLTexan, as I am with several people that play this game. However, my goal is to crush each and every one of them. I prefer to be the one gloating about my rank and wins.

Covert 63

[madmom]

Madmom,

Do you really think taking out your 1 bonus was my goal there? If so, you're clueless and self centered. Check my other games on this map, I've only been able to win when I controlled the bottom left. It's the easiest to defend, get the plains and you only need to defend in two spots (Plains 1 and Plains 4) you get 1 bonus for the island and 4 for the plains. However, if you hold the bottom right, you have to defend several spots, including the tunnel. I tried to take the bottom left before you had the island. Lost every roll and had to take a territory from Cyan just to get a spoil. The east ward was a place I could establish a bonus until attempting to take the bottom left again. I've never been able to win from one of the wards as you can only attack up and through the tunnel. When I got a turn in, I noticed you still hadn't secured the plains. I had two territories in the plains and dropped all my troops on one in a final attempt to take over the island. I lost so many rolls I had to stop and you preceded to take the territory back.

If you lose this game, you only have yourself to blame, you should have secured the plains by now, if not much sooner. You're moving too slow, making yourself a target. Had I been in your position, I wouldn't have waited.

So get the facts straight before you question my integrity. You should take a closer look at those other two games you posted, both terminator games in which I got just about every termination. Would seem a bit greedy of me if I was "working together" with a friend. I must be a horrible friend.

I am friends with CDLTexan, as I am with several people that play this game. However, my goal is to crush each and every one of them. I prefer to be the one gloating about my rank and wins.

Covert 63

You're as bad as CDL... you've only played this map a total of 4 times and the ONE singles game you won... you won from the throne/castle... not the "bottom left corner". But again, the moderators are not stupid and they will hopefully see this for what it is.

[covert 63]

Please try again. Here's the game number. Game 5186731 Go load the entire log this time. Started in Midlands and moved to the Plains and river camp. Of the 4 times I've played this map, this game is my only win. The games I lost were won by people getting the camps and attacking up. Get a life and stop harassing innocent players. Go read your own game logs, you've either accused someone or been accused of secret diplomacy in about half of your standard games. My only crime here is joining a game that you are in.

I'm done with this.

[madmom]

You are absolutely right, covert... I apologize... you did win your one standard siege game owning river camp. In regards to me accusing others of cheating... in over a thousand games, there are bound to be times when it would appear someone(s) is cheating, so yes, I will question that, but that is rare for me to accuse someone of cheating... however, in my last few weeks of playing I have become more vocal about players making stupid moves, but that is not accusing them of cheating - there is a difference. And the remark about megaswoman doesn't even deserve a reply... but I'll give it to you anyway... we were planning a time to set up quad games... if you'll notice I've never played a standard game with her - only team games.

I'm also done here. The games speak for themselves...

[peanutsdad]

this has been an interesting thread to read. usually i don't poke my head into the cheating and abuse forum as i don't usually accuse anyone, or turn them in. This case I find interesting in that Madmom accused you both of being multi's, or friends helping each other. It seems obvious that the two of you are friends, you've admitted that. You've also proven from the games you've been in that you don't readily attack each other until everyone else has been dealt with, then the two of you fight it out. What this all brings to a conclusion is simple really. The two of you have had to agreed at some point in private not to attack each other unless there's no other choice, this in itself is a collusion of players in a standard game, or if you prefer, an illegal secret alliance. The problem the mods will have now, is do they ban the two of you from playing standard games together, or suspend your games completely for a period of time. Now as for the multi, obviously your not, but your both definitely cheating. What i would suggest, the two of you voluntarily just stop playing standard games together, because obviously you can't control your impulses to be butt buddies.....

[Andir]

I had to say how laughable this comment is when you've only played this map all of 3 times and, of the 2 you won, you won one by holding castle bonuses!

Only because you are attacking me by calling me a liar as well... You seem to like to read things into the logs. Let me review:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?gam ... full_log=Y

2009-05-28 21:32:20 - Game has been initialized
2009-05-28 23:45:17 - Andir received 3 troops for 9 regions
2009-05-28 23:45:27 - Andir deployed 3 troops on River Camp 1
2009-05-28 23:45:35 - Andir assaulted River Camp 2 from River Camp 1 and conquered it from TotemBear
2009-05-30 02:58:39 - Andir deployed 3 troops on River Camp 2
2009-05-30 02:58:46 - Andir assaulted River Camp 3 from River Camp 2 and conquered it from Plankeye
2009-05-30 02:58:54 - Andir assaulted Plains 4 from River Camp 3 and conquered it from covert 63
2009-05-30 02:59:41 - Andir assaulted Plains 7 from River Camp 1 and conquered it from TotemBear
2009-05-30 03:00:16 - Andir reinforced River Camp 3 with 2 troops from Plains 4
... etc... etc...
2009-06-03 22:58:32 - Andir won the game

The other one I won on castle because it was a team game and my partner was defending the wall quite heroically. If you look at the one I lost it was because Green came out of the castle (just like covert did in your game) and broke my hold on that area. (Now why would Green do that and expose a hole in the gate unless I was a REAL threat to him?) Up until that point, I was getting some good drops. It isn't even fair to compare these though because the one I won as a team was holding the castle with help and the one I lost as a team was won by the team holding the castle. In a singles game it's a whole different ballpark. Holding that bottom corner is paramount to killing in that game. It's a weighted map. I've studied it extensively even though I haven't played it much (mainly because of it's flaw.) I'll place money on the fact that most single player games on that map are won by the person holding that southwest corner. Are you willing to place that bet?

I think you might be upset that you got into a game where someone made a decision you didn't like and now you are trying to backpedal... and please don't call me a liar again and post some straw man argument to my experience in that map in an attempt to discredit me.

[Pikeman_Poon]

I just did a quick check of just the terminator games these two were in together and it would definitely appear that collusion was involved. At one point there was a stretch of 6-7 games where these two were the last two standing. (What are the odds of that.) Notwithstanding there were a couple of just 3 player games. Whether intentional or not, that I cannot say...but if it looks like a fish, smells like a fish....then something is definitely fishy.

In my opinion, even it it wasn't or isn't intentional, these two should stick to partner games when playing in the same game.

Pikeman_Poon

[MegasWoman]

I'm surprised a mod hasn't checked this out yet. This is why friends do not play friends unless it's to team up together or one on one's. Y'all are focusing on ONE game-it's not just the one game. Andir what are you going on about? Noone has accused you of cheating....if you want your own thread then accuse yourself. Madmom is one of the best players I have ever had the pleasure of playing with-she doesn't accuse people of things just for fun-and definately not a sore loser. I am not seeing the comment made about me but if you are accusing her and I of cheating..HA! You are funny!

[barbie]

25 games together in public games, one of them won 16 of them, they played 5 terminator games they did not win, but in 3 of those one or both of them won points. So 19 out of 25 games they either won or got points. In private games one of them only won 7 out of 17. I think this is the most telling stat. You obviously are going to play differently when you are playing with all people who know you. I can't believe with so many games their is not some collusion going on, maybe not spoken about, but certainly an aversion to taking the other.
I agree megaswoman, I stay away from games with people who there would be any appearance of cheating.

Andir you have played one public game with them, I don't think you can really judge by that.

The least that should happen is a ban on them playing in single games together even if it is just public games.

[BoganGod]

this has been an interesting thread to read. usually i don't poke my head into the cheating and abuse forum as i don't usually accuse anyone, or turn them in. This case I find interesting in that Madmom accused you both of being multi's, or friends helping each other. It seems obvious that the two of you are friends, you've admitted that. You've also proven from the games you've been in that you don't readily attack each other until everyone else has been dealt with, then the two of you fight it out. What this all brings to a conclusion is simple really. The two of you have had to agreed at some point in private not to attack each other unless there's no other choice, this in itself is a collusion of players in a standard game, or if you prefer, an illegal secret alliance. The problem the mods will have now, is do they ban the two of you from playing standard games together, or suspend your games completely for a period of time. Now as for the multi, obviously your not, but your both definitely cheating. What i would suggest, the two of you voluntarily just stop playing standard games together, because obviously you can't control your impulses to be butt buddies.....