Noted TSWillis86 and Commander Cosmo [BG]

[BauerF]

Accused:

TSWillis86
Commander Cosmo


The accused are suspected of:


Conducting Secret Diplomacy




Game number(s):

Game 14627477


Comments:

TSWillis86 and Commander Cosmo have been playing oddly. They don't protect their mutual borders and don't attack each other bonuses, even without a formal truce. It could be just an akward coincidence, but I checked their historical, and it seems to be very common. They usually play together and help one another. You can see, for instance, games 13953420, 13993415, 13933821, 14075394, in which different players had complained about the same trickery. I gave only four precedents, but there are many others.

[iAmCaffeine]

TSWilliams86 and Commander Cosmo have been playing oddly. They don't protect their mutual borders and don't attack each other bonuses, even without a formal truce. It could be just an akward coincidence, but I checked their historical, and it seems to be very common. They usually play together and help one another. You can see, for instance, gamesGame 13953420, Game 13993415, Game 13933821, Game 14075394, in which different players had complained about the same trickery. I gave only four precedents, but there are many others.

Fixed the links for you. The active game is foggy. Can you find any active games they're in together that aren't under the fog?

[BauerF]

Thanks for your reply, iAmCaffeine.

First of all, to rectify, is TSWillis86, not TSWilliams86... I'm sorry!

I've been investigating, and it really seems it's a sing person playing with two accounts.

In about 17 months, they've already played 417 together. Usually, Commander Cosmo joins in and, just after, TSWillis86 do the same. When they play, there are always only a few minutes between their turns.

Currently, they (I would say "he"...) are playing 7 games. As usual, Commander Cosmo's nick appears just above TSWillis86's. Standard games with no fog are 3 of them: Game 14636226, Game 14628055 and Game 14627463. You can check these games, they rarely attack each other, but only do this when it's suitable for them (him).

They've already been accused in this Forum for Secret Diplomacy by stevenshome (Game Game 13614818) a couple of months ago. A lot of other players have complained about them in the Game Chats. You could see, for instance, what Killuminati19 has wrote in Game Chat 13993415: "Red (TSWillis86), if you aren't in cahoots with yellow (Commander Cosmo), you have terrible strategy". It's just an example, there are a lot of similar situations.

And, the most clear evidence:

Commander Cosmo has joined Conquerclub on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:56
TSWillis86 has joinded in on the very same day! (Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:08)

I guess it's quite clear they're the same person or, if not, they're playing together and coordinating their tactics.

[iAmCaffeine]

Probably onto something here, but I don't have any authority. I doubt this will take too long to sort anyhow.

By the way, you can make the games into links by putting [*Game]123456[/*Game] without the asterisks.

[BauerF]

Thanks, iAmCaffeine, I'm gonna edit my previous post, just in order to make the links!

[BauerF]

Just one more "coincidence":

Commander Cosmo has already played 488 games in Conquer Club.

In 417 of them (80%!!), TSWillis86 was there as well...

[Commander Cosmo]

This is ridiculous - I am not a multi! The administrator can easily clear that up. I play alot of games with TSWillis86; he's my friend, who happened to introduce me to CC! My ratings speak for themselves. Any time I engage in truces, I confirm same within the game chat in accordance with CC's rules!

[BauerF]

" he's my friend, who happened to introduce me to CC!"...

C'mon... You have joined Conquer Club in the very same day, in the very same hour! Just some minutes of difference. You're a multi, it's clear.

In the game we're playing Game 14627477, TSWillis86 usually starts his turn just some seconds before you finish yours.

I have already pointed out several evidences you're a single person playing with 2 different accounts.

[Commander Cosmo]

I respectfully request an administrator contact me with any questions/concerns. In addition, please see game chat of game in question. I am/was fighting to protect my BLUE territory in the South and East regions. As a tactical strategy, I did not build troops on my northern border in an attempt to prevent fighting on three fronts simultaneously. You cannot claim my strategy is somehow secret diplomacy, although according to BauerF, I have two (2) accounts, which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Commander Cosmo]

You get an email every time its your turn in a game! You C'mon! This is such BS - I don't want to get into a fight about this as I'm sure an administrator can determine that Willis and I log in from different IP addresses.

[TSWillis86]

Can you stop being a baby. We are not the Same person. Go track the ISP.

[BauerF]

Should I be surprised that you both (or just... "you") appeared here in the Forum almost at the same time?

I keep my complaint.

[BauerF]

Regarding the IP, I'm not an expert, but it seems that one can cheat it, using a proxy server, a proxy toll or even connecting once with broadband and after with an iPad or iPhone with 3G or 4G.

It's obvious that you're cheating...

[Commander Cosmo]

It's impossible for me to prove to you that I am not TSWILLIS86 - the administrators have a procedure in place to determine where you are logging in from based on IP address - I imagine there is something in place to track mobile use - if an administrator looks back into our logins, you will see that I am logging in from Long Island, New York and Willis is logging in from New York City, New York - how do I know? Again, because we are friends and Willis introduced me to CC. I can't possibly be playing two accounts 30 miles away within minutes of each turn.

[BauerF]

Bullshit... You've joined in the very same day, in the very same hour!

Even if you were different players (unbelievable), it's obvious that there's coordination between TSWillis86's and Commander Cosmo's movements. As there was a single player playing.

It would be cheating anyway.

[Commander Cosmo]

Screw you! You have no idea what you're talking about, @sshole! He told me to join that day, so I did. Many of our friends joined that day. You're an ill-informed cry baby! I've tried to be cordial and explain to you that we are different players, but you're becoming a real pain. I welcome the administrator's finding that we/I am/are not multi's

With respect to your other arguments of cheating, my ratings speak for themselves and I previously advised that when I make truces, even truces with Willis - which I do from time to time - I make them in the chat in accordance with the rules.

[BauerF]

You had already been caught before, by stevenshome, in Game 13614818.

I'm pretty sure the admin won't let you delude them again.

[BauerF]

You had already been caught before, by stevenshome, in Game 13614818.

I'm pretty sure the admin won't let you delude them again.

[Commander Cosmo]

If you read the admin's report, it does not find me guilty of cheating - Game 13614818 was a three (3) person game in which stevenshome incorrectly alleged that Willis and I were cheating. Again, you do not know the facts and I am confident the administrator will again find that the accusations of cheating are baseless.

[Frox333]

First off, I usually get a warning for saying one lowsy comment in here that is a little off-beat, then it gets locked. And they are letting this go on!!!

ANYHOW, the C&A team will clear this out, so both of you stop your yapping. I know you're defending yourself commander, but if you keep saying stuff Bauer will continue you post. And if you continue to post bauer, you're the one who is gonna get in trouble for "annoying the public" so please, stop being petty, and let the people who can solve this fix this up, ok?

Both of you have gotten your points across, so why keep talking? This should be solved soon anyways.

[iAmCaffeine]

Even if these two aren't multis, there is an issue that two friends are playing so many standard games together.

[Koganosi]

Even if these two aren't multis, there is an issue that two friends are playing so many standard games together.

Its an issue that they dont atack eacother borders, aka this would be SD!

I have played tons of standards with a few friends, but we were really competitive towards eachother and normally one of our opponents won instead of us, so you could say it was SD in their favor !

Urs

Koganosi

[Donelladan]

They do not seem to be multi.
There is several games they played in 1vs1 and it seems they are really friends.

Nevertheless, the fact that most of their turns happens to be directly one after another is a bit odd.

I checked some flat rate game they made together. Secret diplomacy do not seems obvious at all to me in each of the games I checked. In some games they eliminate each other way before game is over, which wouldn't be the case if they were helping each other. They do truce together, true, but they also do truce with other players in game, they seem both inclined to diplomacy in chat, and therefore it is not surprising at all that both of them conduct truce.

I couldn't map rank them to check the win % if it looks odd. but I saw a lot of games where none of them win, if they were helping each other in 4 and 5 players games they should be winning easily most of them.

I am agreeing with Koganosi, there is no problem if they both really play to win and do not try to help their mate to win, that was the case in the games I checked ( but I only checked a few of them of course).

BauerF, if you want them to be judged guilty of secret diplomacy, you'll have to make a more careful reseach of obvious case where they helped each other where it was clearly a bad strategical move.

[BauerF]

Donelladan,

Thanks for the attention you paid to may complaint.

For me, it's clear that they're either multis or friends/relatives coordinating their movements.

Let me summarize what I've found out:

1- They play from the same country - US - and have joined Conquer Club in the very same day and in the very same our:

TSWillis86 joined in on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:08
Commander Cosmo joined in on Sat Fed 23, 2013 12:56

Suspicious, isn't it? And Commander Cosmo said in this Chat that he was introduced to Conquer Club by TSWillis86. How come, if they joined practically at the same time?

2 - Commander Cosmo has already played 489 games in CC. In 417 of them, TSWillis86 was there as well. It means that he shared 80% of his games here with TSWillis86.

I've been playing CC since mid 2012, from time to time I play with players I had played before, it's commons. But 80%? 417 games from 489? It's, at least, suspicious.

3 - Just do a "Game Finder" with their nicks. I'll see that they usually join the games at the same time. Their nicks commonly appear above/under each other. So it's not a coincidence, they don't run into by chance... It's deliberate.

4 - I did the "Game Finder" and took the first game they are active together to check. I didn't chose, but took the first one. It's Game 14636226. Let's see:

It's the 7th round. They've attacked each other only in the first round. Maybe because they needed to do so, to conquer regions. For the next 6 rounds, nor TSWillis attacked Commander Cosmo, neither Commander Cosmo attacked TSWillis86.

5 - One of them won 7 of last 10 games they played together.

6 - TSWillis86 last visited CC on: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:05am
Commander Cosmo last visited CC on: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:19am.

I mean, they joined CC at the same time, they join the games at the same time and their last visit was, again, at the same time.

If they are the same person, as I believe, or friends/relatives playing together, there won't be any exchange of messages in their walls, which would be clearly "secret diplomacy". They don't need, cause they are either a multi or people playing together.

And they've already been accused here of Secret Diplomacy...

I'm sorry, but there is a bunch of "coincidences" which cannot be considered just coincidences...

PS: I've been playing here since mid 2012. This is the first time I came to this chat to denounce somebody. I just came because, during the game, it became clear that they were coordinating their tactics. They had mutual borders unprotected and didn't attack each other. It is a foggy war, but they always seemed to know the route to reach other players' weakest defenses - causer, playing as multis, it was easier for them to see "across" the fog.

I'm sorry, but I need to keep my complaint.

[Commander Cosmo]

I'm no longer going to go back and forth as suggested by neutral third parties above. This is my final response to BauerF, although I'm certain he will reply. The IP check will show we/I am not a multi. Willis invited me (told me about CC) and we joined the same saturday morning - how is that wrong? I routinely play games with Willis- usually, one of us will invite the other to the games we play. This explains why one of us is directly behind the other in player order. However, we do not always play together, but yes we do often.

As with most players, we get an email from CC when it is our turn to play. Working in an office job, it is very easily for me to see the email, log in and play a turn. As pointed out by Donelladan above (and conceded by BauerF), we routinely attack each other in games, break bonuses, and knock each other out of games before other opponents. If we do engage in truces, we do so in the chat in accordance with the rules. You will also see that we routinely engage in truces with other players and not with each other and again in the chat in accordance with the rules.