Soaps Role Madness 2! Day 2

[kongming3]

Fair enough - no, I would not particularly read into any votes on me for now unless someone is super eager to hammer. I do think both Charle/Max's claims are bad for town, and would also be good theoretical scum covers now that they've been made public, but Max in particular was pretty much forced into claiming so I don't suspect him as much as I might otherwise.

[Ragian]

I still don't understand lying as town. It rarely helps town. Unless it's lying by omission.

[Loose Canon]

I also think Kongs lie goes against at least what I've seen to be his usual town gamestyle

[kongming3]

It's not though, bluffing and misdirecting scum, when it doesn't interfere with the information or purpose you're serving town in, is a useful tool. Once again, if we're all 100% exact in our role claims then it's very easy for scum to know who the priority targets are and what town powers they need to play around. I am a protective role. Town knowing exactly what I can do does not impact my ability to protect them whatsoever, but it does create doubt in scum of what exact powers I might have and what they have to play around. In more limited power settings, town power holders often pretend to be vanilla villagers until claiming their true role is necessary to convey information/use their power effectively. Just last game I pretended I'd received a letter revealing the alignment of certain players. While I shared all information truthfully, I never received any letters and my role worked entirely differently - I also was not the back up mason, nor had any way to get more information. Scum didn't know what I could do/if I was a potential mason-to be and killed me off instead of more important town players remaining. Even this game, while it was in part quite unlucky Loose shared part of my niche (protection) and happened to be Jack, Loose is now hard cleared as a result and is 100% town right now.

[Devante]

So why lie about a role to begin with? That's what I don't get doesn't seem to of been much benefit other then to shed a dark light on you

[kongming3]

Because in 95% of cases there would be no dark light and only benefits - past a certain point, giving perfect information publicly really only helps scum. Knowing exactly how my specific protective role works is literally meaningless to town currently, but it does matter to scum. By misdirecting them on the exact role, I might be able to get a surprise kill or counter one of their powers they thought (and planned around) would work from what they know of town's roles. Again, it was a very low chance someone happened to have the exact role I claimed instead, and I might have played things slightly differently if I was to do it again, but even in this worst case scenario it quite literally worked to hard clear an additional townsfolk in Loose.

[Devante]

Which instead gave scum knowledge on two other townies, three if you're actually town. Claiming a town role you didn't want to divulge would have been a better play then throwing out a random role out.

Alright town what are we doing? We moving votes to anyone else or not, not sure what time we have here. Is there a current deadline set?

Also what's the vote count right now

[kongming3]

It gave information on Loose alone, but only through fully clearing him as well as validating his claim of you being town and therefore confirming you're cleared. You do not have to and shouldn't share your role or information until needed later, and scum always would have known you were one of the many townsfolk. Loose would have had to come public to clear you regardless. I'm also able to protect key individuals as needed.

Let me explain what I mean another way. If I'm Max or Charle in this game, and I really am the role they claimed, I actively want to be killed by scum. Same for if I was a villager or something similar. If I am them, I am never publicly being truthful about what my role is, other than in unique circumstances. Town wins by finding and killing all scum before all of town is killed. Generally speaking, the best ways to move your win conditions forward are by finding (information-oriented) and killing (action-oriented) scum, and protecting the townsfolk who do that best. If I was max and had been forced to claim D1, I am always claiming a high value role. In part so that we don't have a mislynch, though I don't think he was under serious threat either way, but mostly because I want to die as him. He should never want to survive to the late game, in part because his power doesn't activate otherwise, but mostly because him dying is a more useful townsfolk saved. If scum targets him at night because of his lie, he is actively protecting other more useful town figures from being killed instead. Townsfolk don't all have to survive to win in the end, people should all be playing the part they're given to give town the best chance at ultimately winning.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Max is the only vote on Kong.

Reminder, i reset it after two mod kills, more or less a soft reset of the day.

[kongming3]

Okay wait I missed those two mod kills somehow. I think we can solve this actually given the amount of cleared or mostly cleared townsfolk. Before I say anything else, I think Ragian needs to claim. He's the only person other than Dev who hasn't given any form of claim. I honestly think Dev should at least make a general claim as well even if he doesn't say exactly what he is.

[kongming3]

Also I'd just like confirm that besides the prosceuted player having no actions and the no night kill from mafia, everyone else can still do all possible individual actions?

[Devante]

I honestly think Dev should at least make a general claim as well even if he doesn't say exactly what he is.

This is even more suspect. You say I'm cleared yet want me to make some sort of claim anyways and a couple posts back you said I shouldn't claim at all. How does me making any sort of comment about my role benefit anyone but scum at this point. I'm town there's my claim for you. Right now FOS most on you from my end here

[Loose Canon]

I'm sure I voted Kong after the 2 modkills.

Anyway vote kong

[Devante]

After the Lying part and now that last comment I'm good with that too

VOTE KONG

[kongming3]

Can we not be dumb and hammer here before you've heard what I have to say. I'd appreciate if at least one of you would unvote because I think there's at minimum one scum who hasn't voted yet and could hammer.

[kongming3]

And if someone comes in and hammers now can we not be dumb and just kill them with jack powers or prosceutor powers...

[Devante]

Fine UNVOTE for now. I'd like to hear from some of the others as I don't think there's much you can say at this point Kong that would life FOS off you for me

[Extreme Ways]

Also I'd just like confirm that besides the prosceuted player having no actions and the no night kill from mafia, everyone else can still do all possible individual actions?

thats what it says on the wiki.

As for Rag, mgg roles are very... creative, I'd say, and very much out of the realm of "normal" mafia roles.

[kongming3]

Appreciate that Dev. Just waiting on Ragian to claim something then I'll explain what I was talking about earlier.

[Extreme Ways]

Also, Kong put my sentiment quite well.

Phantom is one of the roles you'd ideally not want/have to claim because it loses its utility. I guess it's my fault for advocating for a massclaim, but I dont feel like any hesitancy was shown.

[kongming3]

Super important as well - Max, who did you focus on last night?

[Charle]

Kong, you are at L-2, and have been for a while. Why do you keep on fishing what Ragain's role is, there is obviously a reason that he do not want to do it at this stage and not making the mistake I did by claiming earlier. I have to join Loose with this.

Vote Kong

[Ragian]

@Kong, why do you want me to claim?

[Maxleod]

Super important as well - Max, who did you focus on last night?

Pardon? Obviously I will NOT reveal that. Why do you want to know? To figure wether you should kill me? Yep, definitely scum.

[Extreme Ways]

Super important as well - Max, who did you focus on last night?

Pardon? Obviously I will NOT reveal that. Why do you want to know? To figure wether you should kill me? Yep, definitely scum.

Because if it's me or Dev, lynching you is absolutely worthless and you are someone scum actively does not want to kill. You either confirm a mafia, or confirm a townie. Both cases are a net loss for town.

I'm not totally in favour lynching you because if you did select me or Dev, or our Jack claim, you can select someone else tonight when I'm prosecuting someone. That's the only reason why I want to keep you around today.