Conquer Club

Let your opinions be heard?
- Is it one that no matter what the graphic concept is, as long as good gameplay and graphics can makes the idea acceptable to the "supporting" populous
- or is it one that hsould nave land regions only on it
- or something in between

I am quite open to unusual concepts for maps (Proteins 101, yeah!), but it seems many are rather conservative in their viewpoints and reluctant to "conquer" novel topics.

For me its anything that is interesting. Mostly tht is geographic reasons because of the history there, but I can go for Beef Cuts because I look at that map and I think "so that's where a Delmonico steak comes from."

there was a time (years ago) when a stupid idea was simply stopped in its tracks no matter how much support it had. that was a time when the foundry had standards. i'd like to think that time has not passed otherwise i see absolutely no problem if various maps were brought back to life. maps like:

Computer
crazy-one-way (or any other crap by antjo)
Keyboard
Piano
Internet
Fertilization
Vomit
Castle Conquer
Racing
Another Crossword
Orchestra
Alphabet
Pizza Party
CC Star
and the list can go on and on forever but i'm actually tired of searching. there are tons of ideas which despite being bad do have some supporters. a line must be drawn at some point and i think the foundry leaders should be the ones to do it.

If a map is well drawn, with good gameplay, and lots of support, who are we to say the map is stupid and should not be made? Granted, you did find some duds in Recycling, but not all of them were hopeless.

ender516 wrote:If a map is well drawn, with good gameplay, and lots of support, who are we to say the map is stupid and should not be made? Granted, you did find some duds in Recycling, but not all of them were hopeless.

if i make a vomit map tomorrow and send some pms i bet i can get at least 50 people to support it.
should it be made? i highly doubt it.
the CAs are there for a reason and they're supposed to be experienced mature people who can take a decision that benefits the foundry. drawing the line would be such a decision.
and don't worry, if they use their power improperly a lot of people will quickly step up and cry abuse.

i'm already very disappointed with certain aspects of the foundry and stopped map-making so opening the gate for any crap map would just be just another disappointment. it wouldn't have much effect on me but it would surely influence the future of map making on this site.

anyway, i just wanted to share my final 2 cents...
cheers.

Stop Ragging on The Cow Map... It is gonna be kick ass. Others OK fine.. but this is good to go.

Seeing the majority of the demographic of people that play are white males between 18-30. I'd say any of these things come to mind. Geography, World War, Europe themed maps, or unique maps, unique being unique in gameplay like King's Court, Middle Ages, Stalingrad or unique in them such as cricket or baseball.

DiM wrote:

ender516 wrote:If a map is well drawn, with good gameplay, and lots of support, who are we to say the map is stupid and should not be made? Granted, you did find some duds in Recycling, but not all of them were hopeless.

if i make a vomit map tomorrow and send some pms i bet i can get at least 50 people to support it.
should it be made? i highly doubt it.
the CAs are there for a reason and they're supposed to be experienced mature people who can take a decision that benefits the foundry. drawing the line would be such a decision.
and don't worry, if they use their power improperly a lot of people will quickly step up and cry abuse.

i'm already very disappointed with certain aspects of the foundry and stopped map-making so opening the gate for any crap map would just be just another disappointment. it wouldn't have much effect on me but it would surely influence the future of map making on this site.

anyway, i just wanted to share my final 2 cents...
cheers.

I take my hat off for you Sir!
Finally someone who describe exactly why we're here.
Hear your words make me feel happy.

But as you can see sometimes crap pass through if I have to fight that "war" alone.
Like you said, I'm also very worried about the road we're going to....I don't like the idea to see CC transformed in a sort of LandGrab with his sort of shitty map. But to stay away from that road people must live with the idea that we're not evil, just some maps are not for CC.

But where're the Foundry sharpen tongues? Everything is good for a map? No, I don't think. Just we miss someone with the balls to say when a stupid idea is a stupid idea.
But hey, as said it seems I'm the only one who thinks this, so I?ll shut up and I'll let all the crap pass through. A day we will see how far hitting the bottom we can go, following this way.

Bruceswar wrote:Stop Ragging on The Cow Map... It is gonna be kick ass. Others OK fine.. but this is good to go.

You and your clan are the only reasons I can find behind that map. Everything else is pure nonsense. Without considering the current graphics/gameplay. Yeah it's the best cow map I saw in these years, but it's still a cow map.

Who cares? If someone want to try and make a crap map with a crap idea eventually it will fade out. If it does get made, well good for them for finishing and pushing the project through, at least they have ambition. Another things, just cause there is crap out there doesn't mean it devalues anyone else's map; in fact, it makes your map even that much better. Seems a comp out to say well I am not going to make any more maps because there is crap out there. That is called elitism and there is enough of that on this site. Yes, not every map should be made but where do people begin if they have never made a map before. Where do the beginners go to make maps without being slammed or ignored? O, yeah, cow map is lame.

well, I don't think the cow map s a stupid idea, its an unusual idea, but not stupid.

And Conquer Castle looks like it was an early stage Castle Lands... which id pretty fun imo.

Nola_Lifer wrote:Who cares?

I care. I have been around this place alot longer than most that are now active. I care about the quality that the foundry produces. I have seen many arbitrary ideas die off in the foundry because the ideas are simply bad. This cow map is no different in my opinion, it just so happens that this one has a little support behind it, but despite the little support, it is still a bad idea. Sort of reminds me of the cube map from back in the day.

Industrial Helix wrote:well, I don't think the cow map s a stupid idea, its an unusual idea, but not stupid.

I agree with Helix here. I think there is always a potential for 'amusing' maps---in fact, we already have a varying array of maps with some sort of humor---Doodle Earth, Duck and Cover, Baseball, Woodboro, USApoc, Fractured America/China, Monsters, U.S. Senate, 8 Thoughts, Madness, etc. Each of those maps have some degree of varying humor in them.


--Andy

DiM wrote:there was a time (years ago) when a stupid idea was simply stopped in its tracks no matter how much support it had. that was a time when the foundry had standards. i'd like to think that time has not passed otherwise i see absolutely no problem if various maps were brought back to life. maps like:

Fertilization

This gives me an idea....

EDIT: viewtopic.php?f=583&t=157034

Thought about this. I like geographic maps simply because I like the battle feel of the risk game. But i also like good art, and I think the competitive feel would be just as fun on a cow map. I mean the site has enough geography - there has to be a point when folks start branching out to new game ideas. Having said that, there will be no cow map at majcom

Well, I think there's a fine balance between "silly" and "innovative". If the gameplay is good and graphics are great, it's ok to make a map that's a bit different.

But then there are ideas that are just plain bad, that have no substance in them other than a novelty gimmick... and those maps will probably be funny for the first 2-3 games, then it's like "meh, let's never play this again"...

So I'd say it depends, and should be judged on a case-by-case basis.

The cow map... sure it's a bit silly, and it's kind of a novelty map. But if the gameplay works, the graphics are good and the theme is consistent between them, then it just might be crazy enough to work. It's not going to be the most popular map on the site, but since there are 200 other choices of maps to play, I don't think it's a big issue.

I also don't buy the "slippery slope" argument in this case. Just because one "bad" map slips through, it doesn't mean the foundry will automatically start producing nothing but bad maps.

natty_dread wrote:Just because one "bad" map slips through, it doesn't mean the foundry will automatically start producing nothing but bad maps.

There's a difference between one "bad" map and declining standards in general...

MrBenn wrote:

natty_dread wrote:Just because one "bad" map slips through, it doesn't mean the foundry will automatically start producing nothing but bad maps.

There's a difference between one "bad" map and declining standards in general...

There is also a difference between declining standards and expanding taste. I'm not saying I'd want to play on a lot of maps, but the Foundry has certainly grown in its overall taste since the beginning!


--Andy

MrBenn wrote:

natty_dread wrote:Just because one "bad" map slips through, it doesn't mean the foundry will automatically start producing nothing but bad maps.

There's a difference between one "bad" map and declining standards in general...

Declining standards, as perceived by whom?

Who is the judge of standards here? You? Mibi? Lackattack? Someone else?

I tend to prefer maps that are doing something different with either gameplay or style.

If you are just recoloring Europe again and changing the date of the war that was fought there, what's the point?

However, some of the maps that seem different are still just an interchangeable setting for basic gameplay. Here's a good rule of thumb: if you can replace the setting and theme of your map with any other similar space and it would still fit, then you have missed an opportunity and are wasting your time (in my opinion).

I don't think it matters so much if the idea is traditional or way out there - as long as it all fits together and seems like it will be fun for most folks who play it, then its probably a good map to see through.

That said, I also think the Cow map is ridiculous and that is why I haven't commented on it - BUT, it doesn't offend me that it exists.

AndyDufresne wrote:....but the Foundry has certainly grown in its overall taste since the beginning!
--Andy

and i think that's a good thing. It makes people think outside of the "acceptable" limits of what is possible.

natty_dread wrote:

MrBenn wrote:

natty_dread wrote:Just because one "bad" map slips through, it doesn't mean the foundry will automatically start producing nothing but bad maps.

There's a difference between one "bad" map and declining standards in general...

Declining standards, as perceived by whom?

Who is the judge of standards here? You? Mibi? Lackattack? Someone else?

The answer is written in the guidelines, to be precise here: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=105184

The Foundry Team members are the final arbiters of map quality, and will ultimately judge whether or not a map meets the Conquer Club standard.

Although we're discussing (behind the scenes) some possible changes to the current guidelines.
In addition Lackattack has a veto option on all maps, being the owner of the site. Right now that veto option can be found in the text under the beta stamp, but again, also in this case there could be some changes in the future.

I think to have given to you the (current) answer.
Nobodies

lostatlimbo wrote:That said, I also think the Cow map is ridiculous and that is why I haven't commented on it - BUT, it doesn't offend me that it exists.

Not related with the cow map, but when you (or someone else) thinks that an idea is wrong, ridiculos or the like, you should go there and say what you think. It's hard to do our job if people post only when they have something nice to say.
As always there's a big difference between constructive criticism and just troll/spam the foundry. Mapmakers are supposed to respond in a constructive manner to all comments so don't worry to go there and explain why you think something doesn't work.
Without the constructive criticism the foundry can't work and obviously the standards will decline.

thenobodies80 wrote:The answer is written in the guidelines

Well, with all respect nobodies, I was asking which standards did MrBenn perceive to be (in threat of) declining, so I'm not sure you're qualified to give that answer unless you have a psychic connection with MrBenn ...

It could be MrBenn was refering to "standards" in some other sense, not the official "standards" which are controlled by the foundry staff.

Oh, sorry I misunderstood what you were referring to.
I thought that saying "here" you were talking about CC, so I gave you the official answer. And no, MrBenn is a good friend, but I have no psychic connections with him.