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Postby Kaplowitz on Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:51 pm

hulmey wrote:I can all respect your artistic talents and so on!! Many people in life steal ideas and so on...

Mibi stole my D-day map idea. I could not have made such a beautiful map as his, but he still stole my idea without even asking me if i mind. Did i mind NO!! But i would have liked him to ask me if its ok!!

This is where the true matter lies. I'm quite sure that RJ wouldnt have minded his map being put up on Grand Stragey if they only asked him. it is afer all a huge compliment to him that they really wanted his map. Grand Stragey only copy Maps from CC that have good graohics and good game play.


hulmey, that is the WORST example ever.

You spent about 5 min thinking about an idea, and someone took the idea. Thats it. Ideas cannot be copyrighted, mibi didnt use your map gfx to make his.
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Postby bryguy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:03 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
hulmey wrote:I can all respect your artistic talents and so on!! Many people in life steal ideas and so on...

Mibi stole my D-day map idea. I could not have made such a beautiful map as his, but he still stole my idea without even asking me if i mind. Did i mind NO!! But i would have liked him to ask me if its ok!!

This is where the true matter lies. I'm quite sure that RJ wouldnt have minded his map being put up on Grand Stragey if they only asked him. it is afer all a huge compliment to him that they really wanted his map. Grand Stragey only copy Maps from CC that have good graohics and good game play.


hulmey, that is the WORST example ever.

You spent about 5 min thinking about an idea, and someone took the idea. Thats it. Ideas cannot be copyrighted, mibi didnt use your map gfx to make his.



yea that is a bad example, and for the
Grand Stragey only copy Maps from CC that have good graohics and good game play.

is not a good point, cause they dont take ones with that great of graphix...
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Postby wcaclimbing on Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:28 pm

asl80 wrote:and as a response to widowmakers;
... campbels soup. (or how ever you spell it)


Thats about where I stopped reading your post.

The problem is, you dont KNOW what its like to get your stuff stolen (or at least you haven't shown any reason to make us think you have had that experience.)

You don't have any right to talk here because you don't have anything that has actually been stolen. Go make a great picture, then see what its like when someone steals it without asking you and claims it as your own. Even though you are all for the "freedom of art" stuff, it sucks to get your art stolen, cause you put tons of work into it and they get it for free.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:59 pm

I doubt it would happen but if 8 Thoughts showed up on another site I would issue a cease and desist and I would go to court over it if they didn't. I'd win too.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:33 pm

Coleman wrote:I doubt it would happen but if 8 Thoughts showed up on another site I would issue a cease and desist and I would go to court over it if they didn't. I'd win too.


i hope they do that now. That would be awesome. it would be like a slap in the face to GS, and they would have to take down all of the other maps.
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Postby freezie on Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:54 pm

Does they have a forum? I think we might be able to put enough people up here to make pressures on his site..


I never am much in the foundry, and I am far from beeing an artist...

But this baltently is WRONG. Either it is morally or legaly wrong, it sucks and there should be something to do about it.
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Postby Incandenza on Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:08 pm

Sure, morally it's wrong. But legally? That's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Ideas are not effectively copyrightable. For instance, hulmey's assertion that mibi 'stole' his d-day idea is patently laughable. But even if, say, hulmey had a great idea for a d-day map, had it all sketched out and everything (which didn't happen, mind, just laying out a concept here), all mibi would have to do is change some of the particulars (i.e. move it from utah to omaha beach, add battleships, etc.) to make it effectively 'his'.

When it comes to finished products like rj's italy map, the copyright concept becomes murkier still. I have some experience in this, being a small cog in the entertainment industry. The basic rule of thumb is that you need to change 30-40% of something to make it yours. How it happens in practice can be infuriating: I have a friend that wrote a spec script (essentially, an unpaid-for trial script) for a popular TV crime show. The contact he had at that show loved the script, but never committed to actually buying it. Then a month later, a different popular TV crime show aired an episode that was basically the same exact story, just with names and a couple of particulars changed. Unfortunately, my friend was shit out of luck.

Does the GD map substantially alter enough of rj's map for it to be its own entity? Maybe... there are color and gameplay changes, and when you add to the fact that it's a map of a real extant country, I doubt there's much that can be done in a legal sense. It might be different with a concept created from whole cloth like 8 thoughts, but even then, all the GD guy would have to do is change 8 thoughts graphics and call it 8 virtues or something.

Solution? I doubt there is one. The interwebs are full of dipshits like this. The sad thing is that he would've been better off just emailing rj and asking to use the map. It would've looked better and GD guy wouldn't have had to spend time altering it. Pressuring the guy thru the GD forums probably won't work either, as he has no reason to go light on the ban-hammer.

I feel for you, rj. As a creative type in a totally different medium, I know how much it sucks when you put a bunch of work into something and then see some fucking tosser rip it off. I suggest cultivating an air of smug self-satisfaction, that's what gets me through the days. :D
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Postby Elijah S on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:04 pm

One look at grand stategy's Italy map and it's easy to tell that he lied about not using RJ's original image... that's a copyright infringement, as it is NOT definitively different than RJ's.

I checked out the site and my impression was that is was completely Mickey Mouse... the maps suck, the layout sucks, the links lead outside the site, etc.

The guy has some script-writing ability, but aside from that the site is very elementary and I can't imagine it ever growing into anything other than a CC ripoff.

As for pursuing copyright infringement in any legal sense, it would be more hassle than it's worth. -That's not to say it can't be done effectively, only that some kind of financial loss would have to be proven. (Basically, only Lack would be able to initiate such an action, and that coud be a double-edged sword)

I'd be pissed to no end if my map was to appear there, but I think this entire discussion only serves to benefit the guy who operates that site.
As they say, any publicity is good publicity...

There're other ways to deal with this.
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but I've got to believe that a well-placed .exe would do the trick nicely! :lol:
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Postby bryguy on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:10 pm

Elijah S wrote:I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but I've got to believe that a well-placed .exe would do the trick nicely! :lol:



aww shucks, guess we'll have to destroy those plans for storming his house....
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Postby Bad Speler on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:11 pm

Elijah S wrote:I'd be pissed to no end if my map was to appear there, but I think this entire discussion only serves to benefit the guy who operates that site.
As they say, any publicity is good publicity...


They are coming up with a US Civil war map it seems...but it appears to be quite different than yours

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Postby Kaplowitz on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:22 pm

bryguy wrote:
Elijah S wrote:I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but I've got to believe that a well-placed .exe would do the trick nicely! :lol:



aww shucks, guess we'll have to destroy those plans for storming his house....


Too late for that :shock:

didnt you say to attack?
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:28 pm

for 200$ i know some contacts that can do a dos attack on his servers. :roll:
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Postby Kaplowitz on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:29 pm

you can buy copyright for cheaper
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:37 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:you can buy copyright for cheaper


yeah but revenge tastes better. a dos attack to bring down his servers would be really nice. and i'm sure that we could get a discount for adding luxdelux and the other clones in the package. then the russian "friends" do a bit of magic and .....
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Postby Coleman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:58 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
Coleman wrote:I doubt it would happen but if 8 Thoughts showed up on another site I would issue a cease and desist and I would go to court over it if they didn't. I'd win too.


i hope they do that now. That would be awesome. it would be like a slap in the face to GS, and they would have to take down all of the other maps.


I have 6 lawyer friends. Granted only 1 is focusing on the type of case it would be, but I bet I could get them to all co-chair just to scare the shit out of the other side. He already said he'd help if it happened to my map.

Too bad about you guys. I'll wait tell the Germans come for me.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:59 pm

DiM wrote:
Kaplowitz wrote:you can buy copyright for cheaper


yeah but revenge tastes better. a dos attack to bring down his servers would be really nice. and i'm sure that we could get a discount for adding luxdelux and the other clones in the package. then the russian "friends" do a bit of magic and .....


I have some good scripts from an anonymous source I could probably conduct espionage with. I sure as hell wouldn't really do it though. Script Kiddies are easy to catch in small numbers. I could tell you a story about cain and able if you are interested though. Alas, I've already said too much. :lol:
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:01 pm

Coleman wrote:
DiM wrote:
Kaplowitz wrote:you can buy copyright for cheaper


yeah but revenge tastes better. a dos attack to bring down his servers would be really nice. and i'm sure that we could get a discount for adding luxdelux and the other clones in the package. then the russian "friends" do a bit of magic and .....


I have some good scripts from an anonymous source I could probably conduct espionage with. I sure as hell wouldn't really do it though. Script Kiddies are easy to catch in small numbers. I could tell you a story about cain and able if you are interested though. Alas, I've already said too much. :lol:


now you're just mean. it's like saying i've got candy but i'm not sharing :cry:
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Postby snapdoodle on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:11 pm

i say we all join and then start billions of games then deadbeat in all of them.
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Postby Unit_2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:29 pm

i'd be in for it;) :lol:
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Postby The Fuzzy Pengui on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:36 pm

snapdoodle wrote:i say we all join and then start billions of games then deadbeat in all of them.

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D> \:D/
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Postby Coleman on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:37 pm

The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:
snapdoodle wrote:i say we all join and then start billions of games then deadbeat in all of them.

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D> \:D/
An instant lueicide immediately after joining. Tempting and legal. :-k
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Postby Iliad on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:55 pm

freezie wrote:Does they have a forum? I think we might be able to put enough people up here to make pressures on his site..


I never am much in the foundry, and I am far from beeing an artist...

But this baltently is WRONG. Either it is morally or legaly wrong, it sucks and there should be something to do about it.
that's an interesting idea. We could show links and say how the maps are copied
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Postby InkL0sed on Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:56 pm

It's like an Interweb boycott! :!:
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Postby The Fuzzy Pengui on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:00 pm

Coleman wrote:
The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:
snapdoodle wrote:i say we all join and then start billions of games then deadbeat in all of them.

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D> \:D/
An instant lueicide immediately after joining. Tempting and legal. :-k

I wonder if we could set up a certain time for all members here that would like to do so create as many games as possible (without paying) and then deadbeating...bet we could get a good 1000+ games :D
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 pm

9 out of 32 maps on Grand Stradegy are either plain just copied, no tweaks or anything, put on the site or are changed around a little bit but still the same map and same colors, from Conquer Club.

Here are maps that have been stolen and put on Grand Stradegy:

Africa:
Image
Asia:
Image
Australia:
Image
BeNeLux:
Image
British Isles:
Image
Germany:
Image
Italy:
Image
Montreal:
Image
North America:
Image

This is sad that they have to steal other peoples work, just because they cannot create their own.

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