The Great War, new gameplay and advices needed

[Oneyed]

Map Name:The Great War
Mapmaker(s):Oneyed
Number of Territories:
Special Features:new xml faeture "stages", two maps with different situation which are connected, revolution in russia.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:interestin theme, stages.
Map Image:

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

Oneyed, remember to make this map very very special and unique.

We already have this map http://maps.conquerclub.com/Europe_1914b.L.jpg and it's a solid rock of CC, so if you want to add a similar map (at least for what concerns the zone represented) be sure to create something people will want to play. You can't pretend people won't make a comparision.

It's just an advice....I'm not saying the map is shit...far from me. I can see some interesting concepts into it, but I bet many on the site will say: "Oh no, another europe map!"
I think you get what I mean.

Nobodies

[Oneyed]

Oneyed, remember to make this map very very special and unique.

I think it is and if I good understand xml will be very unique map.

We already have this map http://maps.conquerclub.com/Europe_1914b.L.jpg and it's a solid rock of CC, so if you want to add a similar map (at least for what concerns the zone represented) be sure to create something people will want to play. You can't pretend people won't make a comparision.

yes, I also like Europe 1914, but my map is different. only theme is the same. and comparision and alternative are inherent to people

It's just an advice....I'm not saying the map is shit...far from me. I can see some interesting concepts into it, but I bet many on the site will say:

I will be glad for all advices and ideas

"Oh no, another europe map!"
I think you get what I mean.

Nobodies

is area so important? not unique bonuses or gameplay? also I think that map needs at the first idea-theme. to be honest I am afraid if my Fragmentation of CSFR will "speak to" players who for example do not know what was Czechoslovakia...

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

oneyed, looking at the map, and take none of this the wrong way please:

I agree with nobodies that we already have a map like this, so do we really need another?

is area so important? not unique bonuses or gameplay?

Both are equally important. And yes, I understand we have USA done to death like Europe. But all 3 USA maps are very unique in look and gameplay. This is not only looking very much like qwerts Europe map, the theme is identical. Game play is unique, in fact it is very unique and that alone should help it stand out. But the game play right now does not work. You say at the top of the map, that a bonus can only be got once, this cannot be done in the current xml. Also, holding the first lot of bonuses of an occupied power cannot be done in the current xml.

So why do a WW1 map of Europe, why not follow cairns work on Gallipoli and zoom right in on an area that saw heavy action. You can then keep unique game play on a unique map. The region between France and Germany would allow you to keep 95% of the current game play, and give the site a map that is not only unique in game play, theme but in area as well.

Current problems with the map as it stands now, and this is by no way a criticism but it does need looking at more so than theme and style. Your legends take up around a quarter to a third of the map. This is way to much for a map. We come here to play on maps, not read a novel on how to play a map. Size of map itself, you will never get 88s in some territs and 888s go over each other in places. So a redraw will be needed for some territs. I know this as I checked.

Their are many other things but the theme and size problem will need to be dealt with as they are major issues. Legend, you can easily save space by moving the powers into one legend. Just give the powers the same bonuses. When you draw the map larger, you should be able to get all names onto it so you can get rid of the abbreviations one.

hope this helps.

koontz

[Oneyed]

Size of map itself, you will never get 88s in some territs and 888s go over each other in places. So a redraw will be needed for some territs. I know this as I checked.

where is problem with 88s? I always start with small map to see how numbers fit.

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

A.M. the 88 does not fit into the territ, the 888 will go over Serbia. This is not the only place. Their are quite a few other.

[Oneyed]

A.M. the 88 does not fit into the territ, the 888 will go over Serbia. This is not the only place. Their are quite a few other.

oh, common koontz. 88 on A.M. could be moved to the left if needed. the 88s fit everywhere. 888s not, ok but plenty of maps are tested only by 88s.

Oneyed

[HardAttack]

To the map designer's attention;

the territory name 'tekir' next to the istanbul... Tekirdag is the correct name but not tekir.

[Oneyed]

To the map designer's attention;

the territory name 'tekir' next to the istanbul... Tekirdag is the correct name but not tekir.

thank you. will correct it.

Oneyed

[cairnswk]

...ok but plenty of maps are tested only by 88s.
Oneyed

Oneyed. All maps for some years now have the 888 test applied, it has become the standard test, not the 88 one. this is because some players choose to use the cololur indicator in front of the digits i.e. g88
88s are used only for centering digits on army circles.
If an 888 digit writes over the name of territory or another 888 or other important information on the map, then it must be adjusted somehow.

[Arama86n]

I see no Map medal, so this would be your first? That's a really impressive start for your first map, and I'm sure there are many that won't mind another WWI map, not like their are dozens to choose from.
Keep at it

Btw I *really* like the map visually, it's very attractive. I'll have to indulge in the specifics of game play at a later date, don't have time tonight.

[Oneyed]

Oneyed. All maps for some years now have the 888 test applied, it has become the standard test, not the 88 one. this is because some players choose to use the cololur indicator in front of the digits i.e. g88
88s are used only for centering digits on army circles.
If an 888 digit writes over the name of territory or another 888 or other important information on the map, then it must be adjusted somehow.

I did not know this. then this maps needs supersize.

I see no Map medal, so this would be your first? That's a really impressive start for your first map, and I'm sure there are many that won't mind another WWI map, not like their are dozens to choose from.
Keep at it

Btw I *really* like the map visually, it's very attractive. I'll have to indulge in the specifics of game play at a later date, don't have time tonight.

no, I have one map in Final forge. and some more as ideas.
thank you for support .

ok, there are three reasons why this map needs any decision - supesize and opinion that there are many European maps and because there is already map with this theme.

I will create poll about this, but the main vote have nobodies and koontz...

Oneyed

[HardAttack]

personally i hate, and avoid playing of those so-called supersize maps...
i m not meaning territory counts to be the scale to call a map supersize but the map itself, pixels and how large it is laid on the screen thing i m speaking here...really it annoys scrolling down reading game chat then looking map again, to make it scroll back up to the map etc...

as long as possible, please lets keep map size small as much as possible for operationality.

[cairnswk]

Oneyed...may i make a suggestion...that you include these areas of influence also in your map as a reference point for troop initiations and other battles.

1. If you examine my WWI Ottoman Empire map you'll find that influence for the war encompassed the Arabaian Peninsular and Palestine areas also. This is where the famous story of Lawrence of Arabia comes from.

2. Australian troops for Gallipoli initally came from Egypt, not London.

3. If you read this document http://www.dva.gov.au/commems_oawg/comm ... _Unit3.pdf
you'll find there were other troops involved in Gallipoli,

There were four main landing forces:
Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZACs)
the British 29th Division
the French Oriental Expeditionary Corps
the Royal Naval Division.
The total number of men to be landed was about 75,000.
These troops came from:
Britain – with Regiments formed in England, Scotland, Ireland
and Wales;
the British Empire – mainly from Australia and New Zealand,
but with troops also from Newfoundland, Ceylon (the English
Planters’ Rifle Corps), India (the Indian Mule Cart Corps),
and Malta;
France and some African colonial troops from Algeria,
Morocco, Senegal; and
Palestine – Russian and Syrian Jewish refugees (the Zion
Mule Corps).

4. The german fleet was not based in Berlin. You could put another territory in near Hamburg at Wilhelmshaven as the German Fllet Base, and call that territory you have in the North Sea the Battle of Jutland which is the major skimish between Britain and Germany in 1916.

Germany had three dockyards: at Kiel and Wilhelmshaven, and a much smaller facility at Danzig. The High Seas Fleet made its home port at Wilhelmshaven, Germany's principal North Sea base, on the Jade Bay near Hamburg.

from http://www.cityofart.net/bship/deutsch.html#base

5. the English fleet base was based mainly at Plymouth not London.

6. The Russians had a naval fleet operating in the Baltic and Black Sea which are areas that saw combat skirmishes - you haven't mentioned these

7. Spain was neutral in WWI, but lost many tonnes of cargo to the German U-boats. That could be a feature somehow operating in the Altantic Ocean, and give reason to increase the size of the map so that the naval line from England goes properly through the Med. Sea. and not over Spain.

8. the italian campaign seems confined to Northern Italy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Ca ... d_War_I%29
in the Eastern Alps and northern Dalmatia.
This piece from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_in_World_War_I shows that Italy also had problems in Africa.

As Italy entered the war on 23 May 1915, the situation of her forces in the colonies was critical. Italian Somaliland was far from being pacified, and in Cyrenaica the Italian forces were confined to some separated points on the coast. In Tripolitania and Fezzan, the story has a different beginning. In August 1914 the Italian forces reached Ghat, that is, conquered most of western Libya. But in November 1914, this advance turned into a general retreat, and on 7 April and 28 April, they suffered two reverses at Wadi Marsit (near Mizda) and al-Qurdabiya (near Sirte) respectively. By August 1915, the situation in Tripolitania was similar to that of Cyrenaica. The conquest of Libya was not resumed until January 1922.

9. There is no reference on your map to some of these major battles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... orld_War_I
that took place.

In short and to be somewhat blunt (but not to offend )...the map seems like simply another map of Europe with some WWI territories marked on it that you may possibly develop some special gameplay on.
If you really want to create an excellent map for WWI based around Europe, then please include a good majority of these reference battles and then name the map WWI - Europe and (Africa). I realise you can't include everything, but a good majority would be appropriate.

And yes... it would be important to get it supersized.
Please rethink your plans here.

[Funkyterrance]

My thoughts:

I love the look and clarity of this map. The keys are excellent in that they are actually crisp which IMHO so many maps are lacking due to excessively flowery designs.
The thing is I agree that World War I has been done to death in a general way but you could totally just give a new spin and have something unique. Either that or abandon the whole WWI theme and just take this excellent look/feel and transfer it to a completely different setting.

Cheers,
-FT

[generalhead]

You could always go for a World War III theme.

[Oneyed]

you have much great ideas (some of them I had too) but the main problem is space (this will be posted very often now...). 630x600 does not allow much possibilities. and I am not so good in graphic as you - I am impressed what everything you added to Galipolli map...

1. If you examine my WWI Ottoman Empire map you'll find that influence for the war encompassed the Arabaian Peninsular and Palestine areas also. This is where the famous story of Lawrence of Arabia comes from.

not enough space. but I add Persia there as British region, so it is possible to attack Ottomans here. btw, the Arabian revolt was "British work".

2. Australian troops for Gallipoli initally came from Egypt, not London.

yes, but it was British Mediterranean fleet mainly. and to add Egypt is not enough space.

3. If you read this document http://www.dva.gov.au/commems_oawg/comm ... _Unit3.pdf
you'll find there were other troops involved in Gallipoli,

There were four main landing forces:
Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZACs)
the British 29th Division
the French Oriental Expeditionary Corps
the Royal Naval Division.
The total number of men to be landed was about 75,000.
These troops came from:
Britain – with Regiments formed in England, Scotland, Ireland
and Wales;
the British Empire – mainly from Australia and New Zealand,
but with troops also from Newfoundland, Ceylon (the English
Planters’ Rifle Corps), India (the Indian Mule Cart Corps),
and Malta;
France and some African colonial troops from Algeria,
Morocco, Senegal; and
Palestine – Russian and Syrian Jewish refugees (the Zion
Mule Corps).

sorry, but I can not see idea (and again space) how to implement them.

4. The german fleet was not based in Berlin. You could put another territory in near Hamburg at Wilhelmshaven as the German Fllet Base, and call that territory you have in the North Sea

Germany had three dockyards: at Kiel and Wilhelmshaven, and a much smaller facility at Danzig. The High Seas Fleet made its home port at Wilhelmshaven, Germany's principal North Sea base, on the Jade Bay near Hamburg.

from http://www.cityofart.net/bship/deutsch.html#base

I know. but I can not have there too much regions and I want to do capitals important. maybe Hamburg could has connection to German fleet.

the Battle of Jutland which is the major skimish between Britain and Germany in 1916.

this is not battle of Jutland. this is German fleet which bombarded Yarmouth and Lowestoft. and this is here because it is not possible to attack England (only Persia).

5. the English fleet base was based mainly at Plymouth not London.

as I said I want to do capitals important and capitals are seats of goverment - so all decisions and orders become from there. and again a little space.

6. The Russians had a naval fleet operating in the Baltic and Black Sea which are areas that saw combat skirmishes - you haven't mentioned these

wikipedia: With heavy defensive and offensive mining on both sides, fleets played a limited role in the Eastern Front.

7. Spain was neutral in WWI, but lost many tonnes of cargo to the German U-boats. That could be a feature somehow operating in the Altantic Ocean, and give reason to increase the size of the map so that the naval line from England goes properly through the Med. Sea. and not over Spain.

again a litle space.

8. the italian campaign seems confined to Northern Italy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Ca ... d_War_I%29
in the Eastern Alps and northern Dalmatia.
This piece from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_in_World_War_I shows that Italy also had problems in Africa.

As Italy entered the war on 23 May 1915, the situation of her forces in the colonies was critical. Italian Somaliland was far from being pacified, and in Cyrenaica the Italian forces were confined to some separated points on the coast. In Tripolitania and Fezzan, the story has a different beginning. In August 1914 the Italian forces reached Ghat, that is, conquered most of western Libya. But in November 1914, this advance turned into a general retreat, and on 7 April and 28 April, they suffered two reverses at Wadi Marsit (near Mizda) and al-Qurdabiya (near Sirte) respectively. By August 1915, the situation in Tripolitania was similar to that of Cyrenaica. The conquest of Libya was not resumed until January 1922.

Africa is not included there and without supersize will be not. I think that Battle sites which reverts to neutral and conditional borders which allows you to attack them represent trench warfrare or hard situation in Alps.

9. There is no reference on your map to some of these major battles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... orld_War_I
that took place.

there are just few battles, I know. but everything depends on space.

In short and to be somewhat blunt (but not to offend )...the map seems like simply another map of Europe with some WWI territories marked on it that you may possibly develop some special gameplay on.

yes, this is Europe map divided as in WWI was and with some WWI regions. but I must disagree that this is just another Europe map with some WWI regions. I add there what 630x600 allows me (and what I was able to do). and map has unique gameplay, close to reality.

If you really want to create an excellent map for WWI based around Europe, then please include a good majority of these reference battles and then name the map WWI - Europe and (Africa). I realise you can't include everything, but a good majority would be appropriate.

I am afraid that excelent map with majority of things mentioned by you is almost impossible. it would need super supersize... (and maybe some graphic master) .

And yes... it would be important to get it supersized.
Please rethink your plans here.

[/quote]

yes supersize would be needed. maybe, I do not much like supersize.

thanks for your input. you have great ideas, but the question is how to implement them to map? I realy do not want go for too large map...
will think about it. and sorry for so many "not enough space"

Oneyed

[cairnswk]

My thoughts:
...The thing is I agree that World War I has been done to death in a general way but you could totally just give a new spin and have something unique. Either that or abandon the whole WWI theme and just take this excellent look/feel and transfer it to a completely different setting.
Cheers,
-FT

There are i beleive only 3 WWI maps...
WWI Ottoman Empire
Europe 1914
Trench Warfare....
but plenty of WWII maps.

[thenobodies80]

personally i hate, and avoid playing of those so-called supersize maps...
i m not meaning territory counts to be the scale to call a map supersize but the map itself, pixels and how large it is laid on the screen thing i m speaking here...really it annoys scrolling down reading game chat then looking map again, to make it scroll back up to the map etc...

as long as possible, please lets keep map size small as much as possible for operationality.

We changed the policy (and the sizes) exactly for this reason. The new small supersize is (max) 50 px more than the standard size for the height, so you don't have to scroll so much!

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=182136

[HardAttack]

personally i hate, and avoid playing of those so-called supersize maps...
i m not meaning territory counts to be the scale to call a map supersize but the map itself, pixels and how large it is laid on the screen thing i m speaking here...really it annoys scrolling down reading game chat then looking map again, to make it scroll back up to the map etc...

as long as possible, please lets keep map size small as much as possible for operationality.

We changed the policy (and the sizes) exactly for this reason. The new small supersize is (max) 50 px more than the standard size for the height, so you don't have to scroll so much!

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=182136

ty

[Industrial Helix]

I like it but it could be a bit more accurate. During the War the British invaded from Egypt to what you have labeled as Syria and Mesopotamia. It's kind of a forgotten battlefield of the war, but is worthy of mention on this map. Have the british fleet also attack Syria.Make the Battle to enter the Ottoman Empire the battle of Gaza.

I wrote up a big paragraph about the Soviet Union in there and its relationship with the Russian empire and Germany, but after reviewing the map again, I saw what you did and it looks great!

Also I feel like Belgium ought to give a bonus of 1, given that it was profitable for the Germans once they took it.

I'm a tad confused about Britain, shouldn't it have territories within it? If you separate Ireland and North Ireland, make Ireland decay -1 per round because of the Easter rebellion. No decay on North Ireland.

I disagree that towns should only bonus +1 if you hold all of the same power, just make it +1 for each town.

And given the rules and gameplay of the map, I think the capitals ought to be starting points, but I can't see anything that indicates this. The rest of the map at random deployment would be much better than a ton of neutrals, but set all the the territories to start at 2 instead of 3. that way a player starting in his home country isn't faced with too much difficulty in getting his state on track to fight WW1.


It really looks great, by far better than most of the war maps we have on CC. Once you get this one through, I'd be inclined to push for a WWII style map like this.

But to address Nobodies in your defense: Yes, it is similar to Europe 1914, but the chief difference is that it actually depicts the events of 1914-1918, whereas Europe 1914 only plays out the states and territories of Europe in 1914. This map offers a more intriguing gameplay revolving around crucial battles and varying borders. In my opinion, this map is by far superior to Europe 1914.

[isaiah40]

This is a good looking map Oneyed!! I believe this can go to the max supersize small of 780x650, add 10% for the large and you will be at 858x715 which is just a tad larger than the standard large. I'll let you know if you can go with the larger sizes!

[Oneyed]

I like it but it could be a bit more accurate. During the War the British invaded from Egypt to what you have labeled as Syria and Mesopotamia. It's kind of a forgotten battlefield of the war, but is worthy of mention on this map. Have the british fleet also attack Syria.Make the Battle to enter the Ottoman Empire the battle of Gaza.

I know and as I wrote with cairnswk, everything is question of space. but it seems that it is on the right way and I will wait on isaiah.

I wrote up a big paragraph about the Soviet Union in there and its relationship with the Russian empire and Germany, but after reviewing the map again, I saw what you did and it looks great!

thanks.

Also I feel like Belgium ought to give a bonus of 1, given that it was profitable for the Germans once they took it.

then only Germany, +1 for Belgium? btw, Belgium gives to Germany (all Central Powers) bonus as occupied region...

I'm a tad confused about Britain, shouldn't it have territories within it? If you separate Ireland and North Ireland, make Ireland decay -1 per round because of the Easter rebellion. No decay on North Ireland.

Britain is impassable from continent. so therefore I add there only few regions and made German fleet able to bombard England. so here is question - could be Britan attackable? maybe "hold German Empire and French Republic to attack Britain"?

I disagree that towns should only bonus +1 if you hold all of the same power, just make it +1 for each town.

the towns has their importance - you need to hold it to attack battle site. but wiht supersize I will add more towns there, so maybe +1 for 2.

And given the rules and gameplay of the map, I think the capitals ought to be starting points, but I can't see anything that indicates this. The rest of the map at random deployment would be much better than a ton of neutrals, but set all the the territories to start at 2 instead of 3. that way a player starting in his home country isn't faced with too much difficulty in getting his state on track to fight WW1.

I also wanted to do capitals as starting points, but player with Sofia will have big advantage - he attacks Bulgaria and will easy hold Bulgarian Kingdom and then bonuses for holding entire state... will think about this.

It really looks great, by far better than most of the war maps we have on CC. Once you get this one through, I'd be inclined to push for a WWII style map like this.

thanks you . similar WWII map from me is here in Map Ideas.

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

This is a good looking map Oneyed!! I believe this can go to the max supersize small of 780x650, add 10% for the large and you will be at 858x715 which is just a tad larger than the standard large. I'll let you know if you can go with the larger sizes!

this is great news. will wait

Oneyed

[Industrial Helix]

As for Britain, divide it into Scotland, England and Ireland, then let the German Fleet attack England. Then British were pretty conscious of a German invasion before the war and to them it was a real possibility during the war. One possibility would be to have a German and a British Fleet in the North Sea and have them meet at a Battle of Jutland battle site. From the Battlesite is a one way attack to Germany or Britain.

For Bulgaria, make the Balkan countries a collection bonus, +1 for 3 when held with Sofia. Or just leave it as is, Bulgaria doesn't seem to have a bonus on its own, so the existing bonus system would work if you did starting points.

Going back to the British Med fleet. I think a route to the battle of Gaza would be a good solution to including that sector of the war. Additionally during the war, Allied troops massed at Salonika in Greece, so a route from the fleet into a Battle site of Salonkia in Greece to Bulgaria would be good.

And I don't know about how appropriate Verdun is as a battle site. The German strategy there was to create a meat grinder to kill as many French soldiers as possible, they could have broken through, but never did because that wasn't the plan. The French didn't stand a chance to break through there and even if they won the Battle, they wouldn't have been able to. I think renaming it Somme is better.

I was also thinking that adding an air element to the map would be cool, like battles can bombard capitals, German Fleet bombards London, but air power did little but terrorize people, so it was kind of negligible in terms of determining the war. So leaving it out might be the best choice.

Lastly, some of the labels are too obscured where they cross over borders. The best solution is to put a light glow on the words the color of your lightest tan color on the map. Do it for all the labels and you'll have everything looking pretty.