The Great War, new gameplay and advices needed

[Oneyed]

I love this map. I'm glad you're reviving it!

[ConfederateSS]

Hi,Oneyed..I hope you don't mind...me chiming in..I love this map also..I told you once about the rail system.I think you made it awesome.I like the idea of ship battles..But one thing..instead of Sinai..wouldn't the Port of Aqaba..be better.That was a major phase in the Desert war..As seen in the movie. Laurence of Arabia.Aqaba was important after The Ottomans built the Hejaz railway that connects the Port.To Damascus and Media.Also had Guns facing The RED SEA,like the British had at Girbraltar..Thank You Kindly ..for your work on it..I hope it all works out..ConfederateSS..out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oneyed]

Hi,Oneyed..I hope you don't mind...me chiming in..I love this map also..I told you once about the rail system.I think you made it awesome.

thanks. railway were very important as transfer of troops, guns and food to fronts.

I like the idea of ship battles..

will think about this.

But one thing..instead of Sinai..wouldn't the Port of Aqaba..be better.That was a major phase in the Desert war..As seen in the movie. Laurence of Arabia.Aqaba was important after The Ottomans built the Hejaz railway that connects the Port.To Damascus and Media.Also had Guns facing The RED SEA,like the British had at Girbraltar..

Sinai is land region. there is no space for town and there is also not red sea showed on the map. unfortunately I can not add much another things to map. I think that Palestinian campaign is showed here also that Syria and ottoman army are dashed regions.

Thank You Kindly ..for your work on it..I hope it all works out..ConfederateSS..out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thank you for interest and favour

Oneyed

[iancanton]

Red Army will start with 999 neutral. after round 10 reverts to 1 neutral. also all Dashed regions reverts from players troops to 1 neutral.

the red army region is a neat solution! when we say reverts on a map legend, we are usually talking about killer neutrals (for example our sea regions). in this case, do u mean at start of round 11, shaded regions become 1 neutral? or do u want the shaded regions to become killer single neutrals? in round 11, if someone holds a central power, moscow and russia province, does he receive +1 for holding 2 regions of an opposite power?

in previous versions there are ships and battles between them instead Sea in current version. my question is what is better?

i like the killer sea regions for clarity of gameplay, though the ships also work well for me and look better thematically.

germany, in particular, must have a much bigger bonus, maybe +8. it is in the middle of the map, so can be attacked by four major powers. in a multi-player game, germany will almost always be the least popular bonus because of this, while the ottoman empire and soviet union will be good places to hide while everyone else attacks each other.

add ireland to the british empire, to make this bonus more difficult to attain. this is necessary because the british empire is on the edge of the map and relatively isolated.

some provinces have two name labels, for example hanover saxony and prussia poland. what does this mean?

only a minority of province names, for example scotland and lithuania, make geographical sense. part of the reason is that, especially in western europe, the actual provinces are smaller than the divisions shown, most of which do not really have proper names. for this reason, i suggest that u remove all province boundaries, leaving only one province for each major power (except the british empire because of egypt), plus capital city and towns. if u do this, then u'll have to increase the number of towns, with movement being similar to the csfr map.

ian.

[Oneyed]

the red army region is a neat solution!

yes, far better as Aurora . thanks.

when we say reverts on a map legend, we are usually talking about killer neutrals (for example our sea regions). in this case, do u mean at start of round 11, shaded regions become 1 neutral? or do u want the shaded regions to become killer single neutrals?

in round 11 they become from players troops to 1 neutral. player lost his troops and therefore bonus. but only in round 11, then player can take them back.

in round 11, if someone holds a central power, moscow and russia province, does he receive +1 for holding 2 regions of an opposite power?

yes. maybe you can say that Soviet Russia was not more opposite state, but round 11 does not mean that revolution starts - it ison player what will do. and it would be too complex and confusing when regions of Soviet Russia will be not opposite, I am afraid.

i like the killer sea regions for clarity of gameplay, though the ships also work well for me and look better thematically.

on map1 will be sea routes. on map2 ships.

germany, in particular, must have a much bigger bonus, maybe +8. it is in the middle of the map, so can be attacked by four major powers. in a multi-player game, germany will almost always be the least popular bonus because of this, while the ottoman empire and soviet union will be good places to hide while everyone else attacks each other.

these bonuses are very, very "work in progress". I am open to all notices

add ireland to the british empire, to make this bonus more difficult to attain. this is necessary because the british empire is on the edge of the map and relatively isolated.

could be.

some provinces have two name labels, for example hanover saxony and prussia poland. what does this mean?

this http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59312. it is more open as each region will be separate with own borders, I think.

only a minority of province names, for example scotland and lithuania, make geographical sense. part of the reason is that, especially in western europe, the actual provinces are smaller than the divisions shown, most of which do not really have proper names.

well, it was me who several times fought for geographic/historic accuracy. and I allways lost because gameplay, because fun, becasue, because...
but in other hand when I call for accuracy I would be the first accurate

for this reason, i suggest that u remove all province boundaries, leaving only one province for each major power (except the british empire because of egypt), plus capital city and towns. if u do this, then u'll have to increase the number of towns, with movement being similar to the csfr map.

ian.

yes, we spoke about this. but after my last discusion with bigWham I made decision to make this map with stage.
the start of map1 will be year 1913, the states will be divided as now and there will be no armies on the map1. ofcourse borders will follow year 1913. after player gain entire state on map1 he can attack Capital2 on map2 from Capital1 on map1.
the map2 will be with armies, the states will have on/two regions, more towns. and ships instead sea. so who as the first come to map2 can as the first gain objective.
the question is what with troops on map1 once player come to map2? it is not possible (or almost impossible) to make them all neutral. I think that player who come to map2 would not play on map1. it is possible that regions of players state on map1 from which Capital1 he attacked Capital2 become neutral (maybe 100 so this state will be not playable more on map1)...

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

here are two maps of the same game. map uses new xml feature stages. there are two maps of Europe (map 1 starts before The Great War, map 2 starts during war), each has different gameplay, situations and features.

[bigWham]

here are two maps of the same game. map uses new xml feature stages. there are two maps of Europe (map 1 starts before The Great War, map 2 starts during war), each has different gameplay, situations and features.

map 1: its year 1914, the Europe is close before World War 1 (The Great War). there are three types of states (members of Tripple Aliance, members of Triple Entete, neutral states). the goal is to unite one of them, take another capital and then "move" to map 2. because its still peace in Europe there are no armies or fleets in map 1, but borders between stats are open and railway become more important.

Click image to enlarge.

map 2: its year 1915, the war lasts more as year. old alliances are replaced by new ones, neutral countries also entered war. old railway between states are broken, borders are closed by trenches where stay armies. one way attack from map 1 to map 2 is through capitals, so on them map 2 you started only with capital, while the rest regions are neutral. the map also follows historic event - October Revolution in Russia. for victory gain objective or destroy your opponents.

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

it's looking good. the idea of the map changing as the game (and the story of the war) unfolds is cool... makes for feel like you're part of something more real... but yes, it makes it more complex.

maybe you have different thought, but here is an idea:

certain terits can go from map1->map2, say berlin1->berlin2, paris1->paris2, etc... but until a certain round (say round 10) all map2 terits are 1000 neutral. then on round 10, all map2 terits become neutral 1, so the map becomes accessible. on another later round, say round 15, all map1 terits become 1000 neutral, so if you don't move them you will lose them.

[Oneyed]

well it's looking good. the idea of the map changing as the game (and the story of the war) unfolds is cool... makes for feel like you're part of something more real... but yes, it makes itmore complex.

thanks. yes it is my vision how stage would work. not just bring player from one map to another, but add player feelings as you wrote
complexity? yes it is, but when legend (wording) will be correct explain it will be clear. I hope.

maybe you have different thought, but here is an idea:

certain terits can go from map1->map2, say berlin1->berlin2, paris1->paris2, etc... but until a certain round (say round 10) all map2 terits are 1000 neutral. then on round 10, all map2 terits become neutral 1, so the map becomes accessible. on another later round, say round 15, all map1 terits become 1000 neutral, so if you don't move them you will lose them.

not exactly. I know that this is much less complex, but this could means that much players will just take capital and deploy there all troops and wait to round when map 2 become accessible.
and I think that map 1 will lost importance, I want to force players play map 1 on 100%, not just wait for round 10.
but if conditions for stage are too complex or hard to code, I can anyway work with your idea.

thanks for interest

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

is here any chance that somebody look at this map. I made two new maps for new feature "stages" and personally I think stages is great idea. and personally I think that I found nice concept how to bring feelings from pre war era to warfare for players. and maybe not, maybe this conseptis not so nice as I think. but without any respond I will not know this and I can not change it.

I come back to foundry afte year and seems that foundry is more dead as before. I found just 5 posts from blue guys during september (and all by one person iancanton).
this is realy motivate for new mapmakers.

Oneyed

[Dukasaur]

With the launch of our Great War megaevent, we need your map more than ever before! Keep working on it. I'm sure the boys in blue are just having a bit of a break. They'll be back one day...

[Oneyed]

With the launch of our Great War megaevent, we need your map more than ever before! Keep working on it. I'm sure the boys in blue are just having a bit of a break. They'll be back one day...

you are the best, Dusan

Oneyed

[bigWham]

With the launch of our Great War megaevent, we need your map more than ever before! Keep working on it. I'm sure the boys in blue are just having a bit of a break. They'll be back one day...

you are the best, Dusan

Oneyed

Agree with duk.

it's very hard to imagine (for me at least) how the multiple stages will work out in gameplay... what I think we should do is code it up and get it into play on our Beta site! If you code up the 2 stages, I can help connect them if you'd like help with that.

couple of things...

your rule "hold entire state and next capital from different group..." is not clear to me what that requirement means.

and the rule "once this is executed it is impossible to make any attacks in stage 1" - i don't think it is possible to prevent attacks.

[iancanton]

sorry for the delay, oneyed!

this is a worthy project and u have done extremely well to attempt a solution to the problems that we faced when we discovered that stages did not work as we initially thought.

your rule "hold entire state and next capital from different group..." is not clear to me what that requirement means.

the method that u are using to move from stage 1 to stage 2 through the capitals is very clever and i cannot see anything wrong with it. however, are u able to explain what u mean by next capital?

and the rule "once this is executed it is impossible to make any attacks in stage 1" - i don't think it is possible to prevent attacks.

if all attacks on stage 1 regions are conditional attacks, then is this possible? the condition to attack any stage 1 region, for example east france to west france, is that all stage 2 capitals are neutral.

in 1913, egypt was part of the ottoman empire, although under heavy british influence. it ought to be either part of the ottoman bonus, part of the ottoman and british bonuses or neutral. i suggest that neutral is simplest, with only egypt and alexandria as regions and sinai removed to bring alexandria closer to the ottoman empire bonus. in this case, the one-way attack from london is also removed for stage 1.

in 1914, egypt declared independence from the ottoman empire and became a british protectorate, so egypt being part of the stage 2 british empire bonus is correct. in stage 2, london one-way attacks mediterranean sea, instead of london one-way attacks alexandria, helps to prevent the british empire player from reinforcing troops from london to egypt to defend his bonus too easily.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/Pla ... raphID=pph

remove belgrade and bucharest, then add mountains between montenegro and albania. this turns the balkan states total bonus, which is too powerful just now, into a relatively easy bonus that is not supposed to win games often, but can be a way to reach stage 2.

remove minsk to reduce the russian empire total bonus, since the russian empire is a corner power.

remove bohemia and merge it into austria, so that the austria-hungary player has a chance of defending his bonus.

add wales and ireland to the british empire 1 bonus to make it more difficult to conquer and move the british isles northward to give more space in the english channel.

the position of constantinople is wrong. move it to cover both sides of the bosphorus (hiding the water), then draw the border of tekirdag to include constantinople.

consider adding an extra city to germany, such as danzig or strassburg. u must give to the germany player a reasonable chance to win because of the theme of the map.

in stage 2, please keep scotland on the map. do not name great britain as england, since i consider this use to be offensive. add wales or ireland (or both) to increase the difficulty of gaining the british empire 2 bonus. it's probably best to rename rosyth to edinburgh because every other town on the map was a real town, while rosyth was only a dockyard that was still under construction in 1913 and the first warships were docked in 1916.

http://www.nas.gov.uk/about/0708013.asp

are armies excluded from the stage 2 empire bonuses?

ian.

[bigWham]

sorry for the delay, oneyed!

this is a worthy project and u have done extremely well to attempt a solution to the problems that we faced when we discovered that stages did not work as we initially thought.

your rule "hold entire state and next capital from different group..." is not clear to me what that requirement means.

the method that u are using to move from stage 1 to stage 2 through the capitals is very clever and i cannot see anything wrong with it. however, are u able to explain what u mean by next capital?

and the rule "once this is executed it is impossible to make any attacks in stage 1" - i don't think it is possible to prevent attacks.

if all attacks on stage 1 regions are conditional attacks, then is this possible? the condition to attack any stage 1 region, for example east france to west france, is that all stage 2 capitals are neutral.

oh, you can do that? lol - i am assuming that that is an xml ability that was in place before i came on board... i just don't recall ever coming across it as a player. but if so, then yes, that could be applied for sure... just a bit arduous with all the rules this map will need!

[Oneyed]

sorry for the delay, oneyed!

maybe sometimes I am a little impatient

this is a worthy project and u have done extremely well to attempt a solution to the problems that we faced when we discovered that stages did not work as we initially thought.

so stages do not work now? this could be realy great project and "new era" of CC. just we need all power to do it perfect

the method that u are using to move from stage 1 to stage 2 through the capitals is very clever and i cannot see anything wrong with it. however, are u able to explain what u mean by next capital?

thanks. after debate with bigWham I understand that this must be clear and so easy as possible.
"next capital" I mean another capital. so you hold entire state and another capital from different group os states.

your rule "hold entire state and next capital from different group..." is not clear to me what that requirement means.

there are three groups (types) of states (members of Entente, Alliance or Neutral). see legend in the bottom of map1.

but this look a little hard to achieve, because once player gains capital he will secure it and capital gives +1 autodeploy. maybe condition for moving from map1 to map2 could be:
"Hold entire state and one region from different type of state". I can have this, because it imagine that alliances worked also during peace.

if all attacks on stage 1 regions are conditional attacks, then is this possible? the condition to attack any stage 1 region, for example east france to west france, is that all stage 2 capitals are neutral.

genial solution

in 1913, egypt was part of the ottoman empire, although under heavy british influence. it ought to be either part of the ottoman bonus, part of the ottoman and british bonuses or neutral. i suggest that neutral is simplest, with only egypt and alexandria as regions and sinai removed to bring alexandria closer to the ottoman empire bonus. in this case, the one-way attack from london is also removed for stage 1.

in 1914, egypt declared independence from the ottoman empire and became a british protectorate, so egypt being part of the stage 2 british empire bonus is correct.

the map1 is from year 1914 (very close to war). and the Egypt was under Brittish control, defacto occupied. so if we remove Egypt from Brittish empire in map1 it should be neutral, but (also because gameplay) I like it as part of Brittish empire.

in stage 2, london one-way attacks mediterranean sea, instead of london one-way attacks alexandria, helps to prevent the british empire player from reinforcing troops from london to egypt to defend his bonus too easily.

agreed. also for map1. but because operations in Galipolli started in Alexandria, I will add Malta as part of Brittish empire. London oneway attacks Malta. Malta and Alexandria are adjacent (or Malta oneway attacks Alexandria).

remove belgrade and bucharest, then add mountains between montenegro and albania. this turns the balkan states total bonus, which is too powerful just now, into a relatively easy bonus that is not supposed to win games often, but can be a way to reach stage 2.

agreed with Bucharest. Belgrade is train station and one town in Balkan is fine. why mountains between Montenegro and Albania?

remove minsk to reduce the russian empire total bonus, since the russian empire is a corner power.

then better to remove Moscow (in map1). Minsk is train station, while Moscow has no role in map1.

remove bohemia and merge it into austria, so that the austria-hungary player has a chance of defending his bonus.

I am not sure with this. it is not harder to secure Austro-Hungaria as secure Germany. and Bohamia is also there because Berlin and Vienna are not so close.

add wales and ireland to the british empire 1 bonus to make it more difficult to conquer and move the british isles northward to give more space in the english channel.

ok. but this also depends on our solution with Egypt in map1.
ok, will move Brittain northward.

the position of constantinople is wrong. move it to cover both sides of the bosphorus (hiding the water), then draw the border of tekirdag to include constantinople.

not absolutely, it lies on both coasts.
we have two possibilities: 1, connect Tekirdag with West Anatolia (map1), Anatolia (map2) or as you said Constantinople will be cross between both coasts. and while each capital on map has connection via railway I think that Constantinople could be cross between coasts. so this is solved

consider adding an extra city to germany, such as danzig or strassburg. u must give to the germany player a reasonable chance to win because of the theme of the map.

I assume we speak about map1 here. I disagreed, when we remove Moscow, Germany will be only state with three towns. so for bonus Town+its region only Germany gives +3. we could do higher bonus for holding germany...?

in stage 2, please keep scotland on the map.

if we add Malta (also to map2) it is not needed I think. and if yes then in map2 will be Ireland and Wales off.

do not name great britain as england, since i consider this use to be offensive.

now with Scottish attempt for independence

add wales or ireland (or both) to increase the difficulty of gaining the british empire 2 bonus.

yes. for map1.

it's probably best to rename rosyth to edinburgh because every other town on the map was a real town, while rosyth was only a dockyard that was still under construction in 1913 and the first warships were docked in 1916.

ok.

are armies excluded from the stage 2 empire bonuses?

yes, armies are not part of State bonus. it is mentioned in legend.

as allways your notices are very helpfull. thanks.
thanks to bigWham for his interest and help.


Oneyed

[Oneyed]

I made some changes. from graphic I deleted shadows under coast.
pre war map,

[stealth99]

Oneyed I am not experienced with mapmaking and don't have anything constructive to add, but I would like to say that I am impressed with your creativity and I love the two map concept. This is very unique and I am looking forward to playing this map. Keep up the good work, this looks fantastic.

[Oneyed]

Oneyed I am not experienced with mapmaking and don't have anything constructive to add, but I would like to say that I am impressed with your creativity and I love the two map concept.

evrybody could add any comment and I appreciate each input:). for example when you read legends is everything (bonuses, connection between map1 and map2) clear to you?

This is very unique and I am looking forward to playing this map. Keep up the good work, this looks fantastic.

well, looks that it needs a little more time.

thank you for interest and encouraging words.

Oneyed

[iancanton]

this is a worthy project and u have done extremely well to attempt a solution to the problems that we faced when we discovered that stages did not work as we initially thought.

so stages do not work now? this could be realy great project and "new era" of CC. just we need all power to do it perfect

i mean that stages can work, but in a different way from our initial ideas.

consider adding an extra city to germany, such as danzig or strassburg. u must give to the germany player a reasonable chance to win because of the theme of the map.

I assume we speak about map1 here. I disagreed, when we remove Moscow, Germany will be only state with three towns. so for bonus Town+its region only Germany gives +3. we could do higher bonus for holding germany...?

increasing the german empire bonus from +3 to +5 will be a fair reward for holding this difficult central bonus.

the map1 is from year 1914 (very close to war). and the Egypt was under Brittish control, defacto occupied. so if we remove Egypt from Brittish empire in map1 it should be neutral, but (also because gameplay) I like it as part of Brittish empire.

in stage 2, london one-way attacks mediterranean sea, instead of london one-way attacks alexandria, helps to prevent the british empire player from reinforcing troops from london to egypt to defend his bonus too easily.

agreed. also for map1. but because operations in Galipolli started in Alexandria, I will add Malta as part of Brittish empire. London oneway attacks Malta. Malta and Alexandria are adjacent (or Malta oneway attacks Alexandria).

although egypt was not part of the british empire before the war started, i understand ur reason for putting it in the bonus and support adding malta. however, it is still too quick and easy to move troops from london to malta to alexandria. i propose that we add a killer neutral sea region beside london, called one-way route to malta, just like the other sea regions, except that only london can attack it.

in stage 2, please keep scotland on the map.

if we add Malta (also to map2) it is not needed I think. and if yes then in map2 will be Ireland and Wales off.

in stage 1, we need to add ireland (or wales); ireland was part of the united kingdom at the time. if we have only 2 non-neutral united kingdom regions and someone starts with both scotland and england, then this is a big advantage because london and edinburgh are relatively safe corner bonuses from which reinforcements can be sent to malta. having 3 united kingdom regions means that a player is likely to have to fight to gain london and edinburgh. in stage 2, we need to add a mediterranean task force fleet region beside london, plus either scotland or ireland, to slow down the completion of the powerful british empire corner bonus.

is the capital bonus deliberately different for stage 2, with no bonus for holding a town? i had not noticed this before.

ian.

[Oneyed]

i mean that stages can work, but in a different way from our initial ideas.

good news

increasing the german empire bonus from +3 to +5 will be a fair reward for holding this difficult central bonus.

ok.

although egypt was not part of the british empire before the war started, i understand ur reason for putting it in the bonus and support adding malta.

and I understand why you can have Egypt neutral . if we add Ireland (and Wales) to United kingdom then Egypt could be neutral. and it brings bonus for everybody who holds it because Alexandria (town) + Egypt (its region). please lets make any decision

however, it is still too quick and easy to move troops from london to malta to alexandria. i propose that we add a killer neutral sea region beside london, called one-way route to malta, just like the other sea regions, except that only london can attack it.

ok, but I would rather add this Sea near Malta. so London one way attacks that Sea region and Malta will be connected with this Sear region by route. ?

in stage 1, we need to add ireland (or wales); ireland was part of the united kingdom at the time. if we have only 2 non-neutral united kingdom regions and someone starts with both scotland and england, then this is a big advantage because london and edinburgh are relatively safe corner bonuses from which reinforcements can be sent to malta. having 3 united kingdom regions means that a player is likely to have to fight to gain london and edinburgh.

ok. just United Kingdom will have only 1 town (so only one bonus for "town and its region").

in stage 2, we need to add a mediterranean task force fleet region beside london, plus either scotland or ireland, to slow down the completion of the powerful british empire corner bonus.

yes, similar as Sea regon in stage2. but I am not sure with Ireland or Scotland. do not forget that in stage2 player will holds only capital. and no bonus, just +1 autodeploy in capital. I do not think it will be so easy to take all United Kingdon in stage2. all the more if we add fleet near Malta, so London can not attacks Malta directly. and yes, Great Britain is in the corner, but it also means that player will has harder way to Europe.

is the capital bonus deliberately different for stage 2, with no bonus for holding a town? i had not noticed this before.

yes. in stage1 I can do bonus based like on trade, therefore there is bonus for "town and its region" - both give you better economy. in stage2 is bonus based on conquering enemy country/holding part of your country.

Oneyed

[Armandolas]

This is going really nice. Keep up the good work

[Dukasaur]

The new version needs to be put into Post 1. That is where most people will look.

[Oneyed]

The new version needs to be put into Post 1. That is where most people will look.

done. thanks

Oneyed

[Teflon Kris]

Nice - a map with stages - I will have a look and give some comments (although havent got ny head round how stages work yet).

[Frito Bandito]

Looks fantastic! Hope to see it in beta soon!